P J Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 As for Tony Benn, I prefer this quote "The flag of radicalism which has been hoisted in Wolverhampton is beginning to look like the one that fluttered 25 years ago over Dachau and Belsen" Referring of course to the rantings of Enoch Powell ( recently cited by the church as a member of the Westminster Paedophile ring) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Nice effort, they used to call the SNP, "the tartan Tories" too ! The left in the Labour Party has been opposed to the EU, even when it was a "Common Market"; so nowt new there. Now for those opposed to the EU, the ECHR and unmanaged immigration, there's only one Party left to vote for - so basically a default position from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 and that support is dwindling day by day. Down from its 28 % protest vote to less than half. The people see through a sham when they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 11, 2015 Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Thing is, a general election is about a damned site more than just a protest and a damned site more than the EU . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2015 Not if you've worked out that the EU is the cause of our troubles, free movement of labour etc. Don't know about the Scots having independence from us, it's us who need the independence from Brussels ! The LibLabCons won't give it us, so there's only one Party left ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 The biggest problem is not who votes for who, but who doesn't vote. Voting should be made a legal requirement in this country as it is in Australia.... but of course the Westminster luvvies would never want that because virtually to a man, every one of them would have more people who didn't vote for them suddenly having to vote.... and a real protest vote would then kick in... Incidentally it may interest all you voters out there to know that most Cheshire Labour MP's cost on average more than £1,200 per vote whereas most Cheshire Tory MP's cost £900 per vote based on how much they take from the state against how many people voted for them Helen Jones cost us £967,334.00 in salary and expenses last year and yet she only managed to vote in 67% of the available polls and was ranked 463rd in voting efficiency. David Mowatt cost us £887,370.00 in salary and expenses and voted in 85% of available commons polls and was ranked 64rd for his voting efficiency.... 400 places above Jones So the answer is obviously clear.... the more Labour MP's that get voted in, the more they will screw the system and cost us more as a country MEP's cost on average £1.80 million each and they don't even get to make the laws; they merely rubber stamp the nonsense invented by the unelected law makers that you or I cannot vote for.... democracy at its best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 and how efficient are the Ukip MEPs Baz ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 and how efficient are the Ukip MEPs Baz ? I just knew you would come back with that one..... in fact I almost posted your exact point at the end of mine just to pre-empt it.... but I thought I'd give you the satisfaction of asking it. They have a track record collectively of attending about 62% of votes.... comparable with our own Labour MP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 So ukip MEPs DO vote? In the hated EU? Like I said I love irony. (not so hypocrisy ) You not tub thumping for the Tories this time round then Baz, last time you were . lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Just looked and UKIP are the laziest MEPs finishing bottom of the table, over to you Baz ps chose a source close to your heart http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626937/Ukip-MEPs-laziest-Europe-missing-debates-Cameron-warns-UK-needs-politicians-turn-up.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Trying to turn things won't work.... and yes I did vote tory last time round; as I have said I was brought up in Bewsey as you were but never in my life would I or have I voted Labour. Just because you seemed to have morphed over the years into some eco-warrior is your decision. That is the right we have in this country; to be able to choose who we wish to vote for based on our own free will.... and to live our lives the way we wish to so crack on with the personal attacks and enjoy My figures above show our Labour MP is costing us nearly 1million pounds a year and our tory one a bit less... that was my point... I'm not asking or pointing out any pros or cons for voting UKIP, I was pointing out what our MP's are currently costing us and also pointed out that on the whole it would be cheaper to vote Tory when it came to saving money from the public purse; facts facts facts.... I know you like quoting facts and statistics so you should be applauding the fact that I've done so too ... so please stop trying to turn everything onto the current target for your political anger.... oh and while we are on the subject of voting, you have told everyone on here who I voted for and may vote for.....exactly where do your voting intentions lie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Baz I didn't know how you voted until you said, I could have guessed given the sycophantic Tory posts you made prior to the last election. Did Paul Kennedy take the breakup hard lol . I don't know how you will be voting this time as unlike you I am unable to read minds through postings on a forum. I am no Eco warrior Baz, I hardly think knowing which rubbish to put where qualifies me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 A good question Baz, lots of liberal luvvie sniping at UKIP, but no promotion of his preferred brand. This election has turned into a surreal bidding war, with the two main Parties promising loads of spending, but not saying where the money is coming from; especially in the light of the need to balance the budget and pay off the deficit. The Greens, SNP and Welsh Nats are queuing up to max out the national credit card; in denial of any austerity requirement to pay our debts or any clue as to where all the money is coming from. Strangely, the only two with any semblance of real politic are the LibDums and UKIP; Clegg is trying to retain an aura of fiscal responsibility at least, still mentioning the deficit, but without any precise mention of the funding sources; while Farage has stated where the money is coming from. eg: saving our net contributions to the EU and the £billions in overseas aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Farage is bricking it as he has already said its curtains for him if he doesn't win Thannet, and he is looking dicey, even covering up poor opinion polls. I like that you don't like my snipes at UKIP, perhaps the unfortunate victims who UKIP candidates snipe at don't much like them doing that. What really gets me is this breath of fresh air crap. They are a rotten to the core right wing bunch of former Tories . I am delighted to see then plummeting in the polls and hope it continues. Why should I tell anyone how I intend to vote? Perhaps I don't feel strongly enough about any party to come on here and promote them or give them my endorsement. You Observer, on the other hand, seem to flit from Party to party, dogma to dogma, lost cause to lost cause. Remember CAP the great hope for the future, makes me chortle that one. I just cannot stand the bigots in UKIP and will continue to mock, deride and hopefully embarrass a few of its supporters, get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Unfortunately I live in an area that a donkey in a red rosette could win a seat..... my vote normally counts for nothing. The main point of my argument was to say that voting should be made a legal requirement. That way the keyboard warriors who constantly bark on about what Labour did and how nasty the tories are but then usually end their sentences with: "....and that's why I don't vote" can be accountable too....even if its a "None of the above" option. I have changed my view on PR.... when it was first muted, the main parties were in receipt of most of the percentage of votes and so it was pretty pointless because according to all the polls, the majority of voters were happy with the 2 main parties. Now, things have changed and the 2 major parties are strugging to get 65% of the vote (and that is split almost 50-50) and so about 30-35% each in the polls but they can expect almost 300 seats each whereas the combined percentages of the "fringe" parties; SNP, UKIP, Green etc etc. will be lucky to get a few seats each (except in Scotland where SNP will wipe the floor with Labour according to most analysts) Maybe it is time to take the plunge and if 15% of the voters want a UKIP MP, then 15% of the MP's should be from UKIP....if 9% of the voters want a Lib Dem, then 9% of MP's should be Lib Dem and if 4% of the eco-luvvies want to be thrust back into the dark ages, then 4% of the MP's should be Green.... Surely our democracy should now be evolving to account for what the voter actually wants? in a constituency where say 46% vote Tory and 45% vote Labour.... those that vote Labour are just wasting their vote..... and just to re-iterate, all of the Cheshire Labour MP's cost over £1,200 per vote cast for them and the Conservatives just over £900 per vote cast for them....would you pay that much to vote for Helen Jones or David Mowatt out of your own pocket? Because in a sense, that is exactly what you are doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Ah PR suits you now. Pity you didn't forsee that when you had your chance at a referendum. Just to clarify, an MPs voting is not their only duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 I think we all know your views on UKIP PJ.... just gets a bit same old same old when all you keep doing is posting pictures from the Huffington Post..... I go on the site a lot....it is quite funny; but I wouldn't base my entire contrary argument on some 1960's kids TV show adapted to suit a certain agenda by some PC savvy lefty loons.... just look at the Hitler sketches from the film Der Untergang.... thousands of them out there loads used by political protesters from all sides.... It is funny but of absolutely no value whatsoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Ah PR suits you now. Pity you didn't forsee that when you had your chance at a referendum. Just to clarify, an MPs voting is not their only duty. Ah so I am not allowed to ever change my views.... so it isn't a democracy you want after all..... being allowed to change our views is a part of that surely? Just like Woodward who was the Tory who defected to Labour in St Helens (along with his butler and chauffeur) or the Tory who defected to UKIP or the many many Labour MP's who all voted to back Tonys war in Iraq only to quickly distance themselves when it all went wrong? I am allowed to change my views depending on the situation at the time. Otherwise we would only ever have a Labour or Tory government if no one ever decided to vote in different ways.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 So why whinge? Obviously Kippers don't like it. Suits me fine. If its of no value don't worry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Ah so I am not allowed to ever change my views.... so it isn't a democracy you want after all..... being allowed to change our views is a part of that surely? Just like Woodward who was the Tory who defected to Labour in St Helens (along with his butler and chauffeur) or the Tory who defected to UKIP or the many many Labour MP's who all voted to back Tonys war in Iraq only to quickly distance themselves when it all went wrong? I am allowed to change my views depending on the situation at the time. Otherwise we would only ever have a Labour or Tory government if no one ever decided to vote in different ways.... Is it not one of your favourite gripes that the EU will make you have more than one referendum if it doesn't suit their agenda? ok for you though The chance for PR was voted on and soundly given a thumbs down by the UK people, there is your Democracy. Just because it would serve Ukip better now instead of the Lib Dems is , I am afraid, tough titty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 So why whinge? Obviously Kippers don't like it. Suits me fine. If its of no value don't worry but you have done what you only ever do when it comes to political debate.... call everyone names like "Kippers" and such like but failed to answer any of the points I have made or questions I have asked.... You should be a politician mate; you have swerved around every point and question I have asked like a car on a skid pan; always having to get your anti-UKIP point across but never addressing anything I have said and then calling me names when I dare to disagree. I don't think it's democracy you seem to favour its totalitarianism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Kippers isn't calling them names, Much like I don't find Liebour, Lib Dum , Liberal Luvvies, Toga wearers, Lefty Loons, ad nauseum offensive, not that you would ever use any of these terms lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Is it not one of your favourite gripes that the EU will make you have more than one referendum if it doesn't suit their agenda? ok for you though The chance for PR was voted on and soundly given a thumbs down by the UK people, there is your Democracy. Just because it would serve Ukip better now instead of the Lib Dems is , I am afraid, tough titty. Just like the chance for Scottish interdependence was voted on and defeated..... it won't stop Ed and Ed doing some grubby back room deal to allow another referendum on the proviso that the SNP will prop up a minority Labour Government. Unfortunately once the Scots go, Ed and his chums will condem us all to a lifetime of Tory Governments because the Labour lot will have lost their Scottish Seats and any chance of support from the SNP.... then they will have to change things; that's democracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 12, 2015 Report Share Posted April 12, 2015 Baz, please show me where I called you names???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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