Ebola ?

[Dizzy]

there could be a giant space dragon about to destroy earth, but there isn't is there ? 

I think the odds on Ebola spreading are way higher than a giant space dragon destroying the eath PJ 

[P J]

What's rather amusing is the defence of "illegal" immigration, as if somehow, such illegality should be tolerated. As for the EU element, there's a cure for that when we get a referendum. As for "the bigots", as you call them, they're on the increase as the penny drops, as to what they are now seeing going on around them. Such is the nature of democracy and free speech !

There you go again,misrepresenting what has been said. I can't find any post defending illegal immigration, that would be silly.  What i am saying, as you well know, is that your claims that we will wake up to an ebola infected country because  of some Liberian traveling thousands of miles, through countless countries, undetected whilst suffering from a fatal virus is nonsensical.  With ebola ravaging parts of West Africa people have enough to be concerned about without you attempting to link it to your hobby horse, immigration.  Its all you really do,try to blame immigration for everything bad in the country . 

[P J]

I think the odds on Ebola spreading are way higher than a giant space dragon destroying the eath PJ 

True  but it is how it will spread that has been picked up and used s a scaremongering tactic to advance a certain individuals obsession with immigration.  Linking the two is at best irresponsible but more realistically callous right wing propaganda.   The ebola argument should be about  containing and eradicating the outbreak not trying to score political points using the death of thousands of innocents to do so using a clearly false claim..  . 

[Freeborn John]

The worst case scenario involves an infected person from Africa arriving quite legitimately in the UK and then disappearing into one of the many 'beds in sheds' illegal shanty towns in places like Newham, Southall, Ealing, Tower Hamlets or Houndslow where ethnic controlled councils turn a blind eye to the many thousands of legal and illegal migrants packed into insanitary conditions by rapacious rogue landlords.

An outbreak in one of those places, followed by a panicked scatter out of the area by everyone who has come into contact with the victim, is the authorities worst nightmare.

More an uncomfortable fact than callous right wing propaganda, I suggest.

[P J]

The worst case scenario involves an infected person from Africa arriving quite legitimately in the UK and then disappearing into one of the many 'beds in sheds' illegal shanty towns in places like Newham, Southall, Ealing, Tower Hamlets or Houndslow where ethnic controlled councils turn a blind eye to the many thousands of legal and illegal migrants packed into insanitary conditions by rapacious rogue landlords.

An outbreak in one of those places, followed by a panicked scatter out of the area by everyone who has come into contact with the victim, is the authorities worst nightmare.

More an uncomfortable fact than callous right wing propaganda, I suggest.

Its not fact is it?it is a made up scenario.  What I object to is the seizing of this by right wing propagandists to further their dogma and to seek to blame immigration for everything they can

[Bazj]

Just like bird-flu, mad cow disease and other scare stories we have had over the years, this awful disease will kill many thousands of people at its source, but will eventually be defeated and it will all become a distant memory in years to come..... because that is what happens

 

the chances of the disease spreading with any great damage to the western countries is minimal - I'm not saying there won't be cases, but I don't think there will be the number of cases that some are predicting....

[asperity]

Do you have to be "right wing" or, indeed, politically polarised at all to be concerned about immigration whether legal or illegal? There is a danger in pidgeon-holing people in that way.

[observer]

Just in case folk have forgotten, we've had a disease "out of Africa" before; that made (some would say), a devastating impact on the Western world.  They've now traced the origin of this virus, right back to Kinshasa (Congo) in 1920, it was called Aids.  The 1918 flu epidemic is claimed to have been carried to Europe by (albeit necessary) mass movement of US servicemen, and resulted in a 20% death rate.  The simple fact is, that such pathogens are spread by people movements from affected areas; the standard counter is to isolate and contain outbreaks to their areas of origin. Such a medical protocol requires quick and decisive action to curtail such movements, possible in the case of legal migration, but not in the case of illegal migration.

[P J]

so what do you suggest?  Make illegal immigration even more illegal? A few extermination squads to invade France and wipe them out?  A new label of "Very illegal immigrant"?

[Bill]

Now there’s a good idea.

 

What I don’t understand about Ebola is that they tell us that it’s almost impossible to contract without direct contact with bodily fluids and yet we see the doctors becoming infected despite all the precautions they take. So given this, is it not time to reassess and revise this advice?

 

Bill

[observer]

Your sounding more ignorant and stupid with each post PJ;  HMGs first priority is to keep it's citizens safe, and safeguarding our borders is part of that function; whether we have the capacity to do that in terms of the UKBF or the legislation we're able to introduce (without EU or ECHR interference), is an open question, now open for the electorate to decide upon.

[Dizzy]

Now there’s a good idea.

 

What I don’t understand about Ebola is that they tell us that it’s almost impossible to contract without direct contact with bodily fluids and yet we see the doctors becoming infected despite all the precautions they take. So given this, is it not time to reassess and revise this advice?

 

Bill

That's something I've wondered too Bill but maybe they don't want to publicly say anything like that for fear of spreading even more panic.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say too Obs re the possible other routes it could spread by. 

 

OK so like PJ says it hasn't 'yet' which is good.... but given it could do quite easily as who's to say how many people aren't already fleeing from infected area's through fear and in any way they can and to anywhere they can.

[P J]

Your sounding more ignorant and stupid with each post PJ;  HMGs first priority is to keep it's citizens safe, and safeguarding our borders is part of that function; whether we have the capacity to do that in terms of the UKBF or the legislation we're able to introduce (without EU or ECHR interference), is an open question, now open for the electorate to decide upon.

This one has me giggling.  HMG does have a duty to its people but they are already trying to safeguard our borders.  These illegal immigrants will have traveled for god knows how long to get into Britain the way you suggest, probably more than the 21 days required for the fever to hit.   yet an equally infected British person returning home takes hours to get here and won't even have a temperature in the time it takes. Here's the bit that made me laugh, you solution is to wait months, gamble on UKIP getting in at the election (right)  and then go about getting out of the EU and then sealing the country.  That will take far too long.and won't happen anyway.

[Freeborn John]

Its not fact is it?it is a made up scenario.  What I object to is the seizing of this by right wing propagandists to further their dogma and to seek to blame immigration for everything they can

I can well see that a Labour apparatchik like your good self would object to people using the Ebola situation to illustrate how that party, with it's wilful policy of uncontrolled mass immigration, has turned parts of the English capital city into working replicas of third world slums.

Do carry on. 

[P J]

I can well see that a Labour apparatchik like your good self would object to people using the Ebola situation to illustrate how that party, with it's wilful policy of uncontrolled mass immigration, has turned parts of the English capital city into working replicas of third world slums.

Do carry on. 

How wonderfully funny, have you ever actually witnessed a 3rd World slum?  I object to people using the fear of a lethal virus to gain votes yes.  Labour apparatchik?  absolute corker that one         Please post any other funnies you think of John, this one made my day.

[observer]

There you go again PJ: completely off on a tangent:  I suggested the 21 day point (just in case you hadn't seized on it) and covered it by adding that it's the virus that spreads, not necessary the individual. This would ensure N/Africa and S/Europe are infected first, giving us plenty of time to panic. Also covered the point about legal arrivals, not showing symptoms through the airport screening, BUT being prepared to seek help when symptoms appear, as they have no need to fear the authorities. As for the UKIP comment; UKIP won't be forming a Government; but support for them will and is moving the other Parties (except the Lib Dums) to review their policies, and continued support for UKIP will drag the other Parties to conform to majority public opinion.. But this in no way is to suggest that the ebola scare can be resolved by it, merely that the situation highlights the deficiencies that successive Governments have left this Country with. Without hopefully changing the subject; the other "scare" running parallel to this, is of course, the return of the ISIS nutcases to the UK; with an ideological virus.

[P J]

So these legal entrants with ebola who show no symptoms until later,  how many people will they have infected before seeking help?  Where is the trail of bodies leading from west Africa to Calais if people are passing it along the line?  Will us not being in the EU stop illegal immigrants coming to Britain ?  Why do you blame immigration for anything bad.  ISIS scares too,suppose if we come out of the EU ISIS will just disappear.  I am not saying there is no threat from ebola coming here I just think there are more obvious routes than your "pin it on the illegal immigrants" scare tactic.

[observer]

Ebola isn't contagious until symptoms appear, people are being advised to call the 111 number immediately, when advise will presumably be given and questions asked regarding contacts etc. Well, as any legislation to control/curb immigration from the EU would be contrary to the EU Treaty, and membership of the ECHR is a condition of membership of the EU; exiting the two brings powers back to the UK to decide on appropriate legislation. I don't "blame" the immigrants; they are merely desperate to secure "a better life"; I blame successive main party Governments for allowing it without controls. I've no problem with immigration in principle, as far as it allows in the skills we require economically, hence the need for a points based system. Starting with the Labour blunder over Poland, when they thought only 15,000 would come, we've had uncontrolled numbers, all putting added pressures on our stretched public services. As for "illegal" immigrants, they are precisely that - "illegal"; but unfortunately we can't deport them immediately; and many linger on with asylum appeals, funded by legal aid, paid for by us. According to the Dublin Convention, asylum seekers supposed to travel to the next nearest safe country; not travel half way round the world to reach the UK.

[P J]

So, without avoidance, will not being in the EU stop illegal immigrants coming here?  How will not being in the EU stop them? It doesnt matter if you change every asylum law in the book it can only get rid of them not stop them,  making it a futile gesture when arguing about disease and virus infection which is what this  discussion is about.  This virus respects nothing including race, age, sex and certainly not bits of paper from Westminster.  If we left the EU do you think France would even bother trying to stop illegal immigrants coming here? Nobody from Poland has ebola but nice try.

[observer]

Not being in the EU would allow immigration to be managed and appropriate travel restrictions imposed and policed; not being in the ECHR would allow deportations to be easier and less expensive legally. Of course this doesn't eliminate plague risks, just  puts HMG in control.

[P J]

At long last,  not being in the EU wouldn't make a blind bit of difference when it comes to the spread to Britain of the ebola virus.  Now that wasn't so hard was it?

[P J]

Much more importantly though less sensational than Ebolans strapped to lorries is that Nigeria has been declared ebola free by WHO

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29685127

[Evil Sid]

He's good that dr who bloke

[observer]

Seems your dogma is blocking any logic: "spread" is exacerbated by people movement and contact, hence the medical protocol for isolation and containment. Migration, whether legal or illegal = people movement = increased risk of spread. Now that wasn't too difficult was it? !

[Lt Kije]

Might be wrong Obs, but ebola is coming from West Africa, West Africans don't have free movement in the EU, So not being in the EU, would not make a difference as the UK does have control of people coming in and out from non EU Countries.