Nelson Mandela RIP

[asperity]

David Cameron would say blue was yellow if he thought there was a vote in it for him. Mandela and de Klerk both said Maggie got it right but you would rather take the opinion of two faux Tories like Major and Cameron as being right because they agree with your opinion.

[Robbo]

two faux Tories V A supposed terrorist and a bitter defender of apartheid, oh decisions, decisions 

[Bazj]

wrong on apartheid, and he was write to do so.

 

 

Baz

 

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Mandela-was-never-a-member-of-the-Communist-Party-20131211

 

even two wrongs don't make a write

 

 

as for the link, there are many more that say he was a commie.... you go for the idea of majority rule don't you Kije???

 

 

[asperity]

two faux Tories V A supposed terrorist and a bitter defender of apartheid, oh decisions, decisions 

The "bitter defender of apartheid" being F.W. de Klerk who got rid of it? Get your facts straight Robbo.

[Lt Kije]

Yes get your facts right Asp, De Klerk had no choice, but to do what he did. The writing had been on the wall for along time, Mr Botha was just to blind to see it. The ANC had done a very good job on public opinion round the World, opinions had been turned world wide.

[asperity]

That is very true, proving that apartheid was a dead duck without the use of violence and the sanctions that you keep insisting were vital! You can't have it both ways but you being you will no doubt insist that you can.

[Lt Kije]

Sanctions were getting worse, as World public opinion grew more critical, and people put pressure on their governments to do something. Violence let repressed South Africans know the fight went on. The fight had many fronts Asp.

[asperity]

As predicted you want it both ways.

 

Most of the violence was blacks against blacks. And still is in most of Africa.

[Lt Kije]

Are you trying to say the ANC did nothing to influence World opinion, their was a lot more to the ANC than the armed struggle, in fact that was only ever a small part.

 

I am not having it all ways as you say, just stating facts

 

Where as you are clutching at straws as usual

 

Yes their was a lot of black on black killing as the ANC were fighting the Zulu Inkatha movement, and to be honest on that I do not know who started it, probably goes back to tribalism.

[asperity]

Of course you're wanting it all ways Lt Kije. First you say that the only weapon the ANC had against apartheid was violence, and then you say it was the ANC getting international support that got rid of apartheid. The only thing you've said on here with any truth behind it was that apartheid had had it's day. You wouldn't know a fact if it came up and kicked you in the backside.

[Lt Kije]

I have never stated it was their ONLY WEAPON Asp, in the end it was world opinion that got rid of the regime, not the armed struggle, but the ANC must be given credit on World opinion as that was mostly their work. The armed struggle such as it was was very small as armed struggles go. Your problem is that you only see the ANC as the armed struggle, and the rest of the organisation is a bit like an iceberg you don't see it. The ANC was a vast organisation, it is probably better to see it as an umbrella organisation in those days, not the political party it quickly became.

[asperity]

Of course you have> Your position for a long time was that it was the only weapon they had against a repressive regime. Now you've changed your mind because you managed to talk yourself into losing that argument.

[Lt Kije]

If I have said it quote me!!!!!!

 

I think you are guilty again of reading what you want to read and not what is actually posted, and again putting yourself in a corner of your own making, no need for me to beat you, I just wait for you to defeat yourself as happened here.

 

R.I.P Asp, another failed attempt, it getting easier every time, I keep trying to help you by saying slow down but you can't help yourself

 

Come on quote me!!!!!!!

[asperity]

From the Middle East topic:

 

"The majority of the population were not allowed to take part in elections Asp, how would you advocate they get power, when those in charge were not going to move on it,"

 

"Are you saying violence of any kind is wrong and an act of Terrorism even if the system they are fighting is wrong?"

 

You advocated violence against a legitimate government (even if it was repressive it was legitimate) rather than peaceful means. The majority of the population in this country weren't allowed to take part in elections until relatively recently.

[Lt Kije]

Asp, I have just watched you troll though so many forums, and you come back with that, where do I say violence is the only weapon?

 

I can see you are getting desperate.

 

Please quote me

 

And please use the quote system to do it

[Lt Kije]

You could always admit you were WRONG again

[asperity]

You could always admit that you advocate the use of violence to overthrow legitimate government.

[asperity]

 

And please use the quote system to do it

Why?

[Lt Kije]

I didn't consider the South African government as legitimate, as most people living in the Country could not vote, now where did I say, violence was their only weapon, come on Asp, we both know you were reading what you wanted to read and not actually was posted, so quote me are say you got it wrong!

[Bazj]

I didn't consider the South African government as legitimate, as most people living in the Country could not vote, now where did I say, violence was their only weapon, come on Asp, we both know you were reading what you wanted to read and not actually was posted, so quote me are say you got it wrong!

 

.... it's only a forum....

[asperity]

Asp, I have just watched you troll though so many forums,

 And you had the cheek to accuse me of stalking you!

[Lt Kije]

I'm still waiting for you to quote me, it was funny watching you in panic mode, my you went back some

 

You could come clean I just admit you cocked up again.

[asperity]

I have quoted you. You just won't admit that you prefer terrorists to pragmatists.

[Lt Kije]

I thought you were trying to find a quote where I said "violence was the only means"

I'm still waiting for where I supposedly said it.

You cocked up again live with it

[asperity]

It's what you believe. Live with it.