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Nelson Mandela RIP


Lt Kije

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Some of these people are even more extreme than their former colonial "oppressors"  ever were  in their violent intimidation when suppressing opponents ,Mugabe, Amin ,the Rwandan government. I still remember news articles many years ago of the collapse of Ian Smith's Rhodesian regime & the two main election hopefuls Mugabe & Lamumba  then, a few days later , Lamumba's mutilated body was shown  & they were free elections.

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The removal of Apartheid and total integration of all of the black and white population in South Africa enabling them to live in peace and harmony, which in my opinion has not come to fruition, my daughter and son-in-law have just returned from Cape Town where they were advised not to venture out on to the streets after 6pm for their own safety

If you have ever been to New York alg, up to a few years ago (not sure about now) the advise was exactly the same.

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Apartheid still exists to some degree in SA, however now the boot is on the other foot. The lot of the poor hasn't been improved one iota by them being ruled by a new set of masters. Mandela didn't come out against any of the many dictators in black Africa - in fact he supported many of them - while he was president, and the country he has left behind is more dangerous and corrupt. Comparing it to ghettoes in the USA doesn't serve any purpose other than to denigrate black Africans and their American decendants. Anyway I refuse to be a hypocrite by changing what I've previously said in other posts about the man just because he has kicked the bucket.

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I think your opinion of him is most definitely wrong and most definetly in the minority Asp, in and out of South Africa

Another one who thinks South Africa is a paradise on earth. I was there in the seventies and the lot of the black Africans even under apartheid was much better than that of their cousins in most other African states, apart from the elite few who ruled those states. South Africa is another Zimbabwe in the making.

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-Church Street West, Pretoria, on the 20 May 1983

-Amanzimtoti Shopping complex KZN, 23 December 1985

-Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court, 17 March 1988

-Durban Pick ‘n Pay shopping complex, 1 September 1986

-Pretoria Sterland movie complex 16 April 1988 – limpet mine killed ANC terrorist M O Maponya instead

-Johannesburg Magistrate’s Court, 20 May 1987

-Roodepoort Standard Bank 3 June, 1988

 

All those happened while he was in prison, didn't they?

 

So Mr Fugs what do you think Nelson Mandela has achieved

 

Well, apartheid was abolished, at least as a policy, and he can't be blamed if other people continued as if that hadn't happened. What he did in his lifetime puts mine to shame, sounds a bit like you don't think he did enough though.

 

I refuse to be a hypocrite by changing what I've previously said in other posts about the man just because he has kicked the bucket.
 

I don't have a problem with this.

 

Another one who thinks South Africa is a paradise on earth.

 

I don't think anyone's said that, have they?

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Fugs, please don't put words where they don't exist, you asked me what I thought about the topic, i gave you my opinion and by the sounds of it we are not far apart, I'm sure he did all that he was able to do, I just think that he did not manage to achieve the goal that he set himself, regarding your statement "What he did in his lifetime puts mine to shame" only you know the answer to that question. As a leader he is probably one of the greatest in history!.

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Asp Explains a lot about you you being in South Africa under apartied, at least black Africans have a choice now, when you were their they had non, but that's probably why you were their :wink:

Yet another peculiar statement from Lt Kije. Black Africans had the same choice then as they have now, stay in South Africa and be ruled by the rich elite or move to another African state and be ruled by the rich elite. Some choice.

 

I am curious to know what you think I was doing there. Oppressing the poor natives perhaps?

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Perhaps symptomatic of the "new" S/Africa; but it appears the sign language interpreter at the memorial service, addressed by world leaders, was a fake !

 

I think they may have taken "inclusion" a little too far and used an interpreter that was also deaf and couldn't hear a word being said so made a best guess !! :) :smile:

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They get to choose who rules them Asp, they now have a similar choose to you, they did not before as they were ruled out because of the colour of their skin, as to you oppressing the natives I have no idea, were you?

 

Kije; do you think that everyone is a racist that doesn't agree with your idea of utopia?

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Lt Kije, in several of your posts you express opinions as to my politics, my likes and dislikes, my choice of reading material, in fact everything about me despite the fact that you know absolutely nothing about me apart from what your own prejudices tell you.

 

As for the South Africans having a choice as to who rules them, wouldn't it be nice if we had the same choice afforded to us by your beloved EU?

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Asp, if you had bothered to read my post, I did not express an opinion on your view, so stop your quivering bottom lip, and we do have a choose, I take it you don't bother to vote in EU elections. Back to subject, can I take it you agree that South Africa is better without apartheid ??????

 

And Nelson's fight to rid South Africa of apartheid was a just one????? :wink:

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and we do have a choose, I take it you don't bother to vote in EU elections.

 

but we don't vote for those that make the laws and the rules Kije.... we merely vote for the ones who rubber stamp the laws made by the UNELECTED EU commissioners..... but I'm sure you knew that already

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, so stop your quivering bottom lip,

Offering another unjustified opinion of me Lt Kije?

 

As Baz said, we don't vote for the people who make the rules we are supposed to live by. This goes as much for the UK government as for the EU (unless you know how votes for your local MP are somehow votes for Call me Dave?)

 

I won't agree that the lot of the mass of South Africans is better under the present regime. They may feel free but it's just an illusion.

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