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Bus strike over


Gary

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Where does the money come from to give 14% pay increases to some  in the council

 

I still do not get why your all so against the bus drivers wanting a pay rise?

 

Well personally I don't like buses.... they travel round; mostly empty and clog up roads and charge a fortune to actually use the damned things (hence why they are mostly empty) Plus the bus drivers are a bunch of bolshi lefties who thought their union was doing the right thing taking them out on strike instead of informing them that to have a pay rise every year for the past 16 years is pretty bloody amazing anyway and they should be glad of that and let the company get back on its feet and then ask for a rise.

 

Plus striking and inconveniencing folk who do rely on their services is just not on; especially when the likes of the old folk can't get to a hospital or doctors appointment

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Where does the money come from to give 14% pay increases to some  in the council

 

I still do not get why your all so against the bus drivers wanting a pay rise?

 

I think that appears to be executive pay which has ballooned outrageously for some time now. Council execs have done what execs everywhere have done - award themselves pay rises based on the advice of panels of their peers, then point at the pay rises as a reason to do the same again next year to 'offer competitive salaries'. Then continue to inflate the bubble until either it goes pop or you look out of the office window one day and find a mob beneath it baying for your blood.    

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If i was them i'd worry more about next year. Are WBT going to have any more cash for another rise next year when it is losing money. If the public response was not supportive this year what is it going to be like next year when financial problems have worsened. My bet is that someone will take it over (Stagecoach? / First? / Arriva?) and then there will be fun.

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We

 

Well personally I don't like buses.... they travel round; mostly empty and clog up roads and charge a fortune to actually use the damned things (hence why they are mostly empty) Plus the bus drivers are a bunch of bolshi lefties who thought their union was doing the right thing taking them out on strike instead of informing them that to have a pay rise every year for the past 16 years is pretty bloody amazing anyway and they should be glad of that and let the company get back on its feet and then ask for a rise.

 

Plus striking and inconveniencing folk who do rely on their services is just not on; especially when the likes of the old folk can't get to a hospital or doctors appointment

 

Well neither do I, especially when they stop in the middle of the road. However the fact they cost to much and are empty is not the drivers fault, they do a stresful job I would hate to do and they could earn more driving coaches. Did they inconvenience anyone, well if they are empty not many. If they wait until the company is on its feet they will not have a pay rise for the next 16 years I think.

 

IF it was train drivers on strike, who earn more then £30000 or plumbers then that would be different

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IF it was train drivers on strike, who earn more then £30000 or plumbers then that would be different

 

'Plumbers' Coffee ???  That really made me giggle and what a strange comparison to make  :lol:  :lol:  

 

Ha ha where I typed 'plumbers' followed by your name has got me giggling even more now.  Sorry I must have my silly head on, so back to where you were  :lol:  

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It isn't a matter of being "against" the bus drivers Coffee, it's a matter of common sense. A business can only survive if it makes a profit, and if a pay increase means that the company becomes unprofitable it will go under, and the bus drivers won't be bus drivers anymore, they will be unemployed bus drivers. Am I getting through to you yet?

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I thought the bus company were under contract from the council to run a service, and some routes that they run are unprofitable, but as they are running a SERVICE it does not matter, because people don't live on a profitable route should not have a service.

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'Plumbers' Coffee ???  That really made me giggle and what a strange comparison to make  :lol:  :lol:  

 

Ha ha where I typed 'plumbers' followed by your name has got me giggling even more now.  Sorry I must have my silly head on, so back to where you were  :lol:  

 

Why did plumbers make you laugh???? I thought I spelt it wrong but no. :) (Just thought I edit this and put a smile in just to show I am not upset here is a second one)  :)

 

They were on my mind as had my bathroom redone just recently and the plumber charged £450 for just under 9 hours of labour. The highest quotes was from a Polish guy, he said he was moving back to Poland in the new year  as he can earn more in Warsaw. then in Warrington

 

The tiler vwasn't much cheaper

 

It isn't a matter of being "against" the bus drivers Coffee, it's a matter of common sense. A business can only survive if it makes a profit, and if a pay increase means that the company becomes unprofitable it will go under, and the bus drivers won't be bus drivers anymore, they will be unemployed bus drivers. Am I getting through to you yet?

 

Is there any prospect of Warrington Network buses making a profit? I doubt it.

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I thought the bus company were under contract from the council to run a service, and some routes that they run are unprofitable, but as they are running a SERVICE it does not matter, because people don't live on a profitable route should not have a service.

 

Warrington Council used to pay a subsidy for running unprofitable routes, I think this ended two or three years ago, but Warrington Network still seems to run as a public service

 

 

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Warrington Council used to pay a subsidy for running unprofitable routes, I think this ended two or three years ago, but Warrington Network still seems to run as a public service

 

 

The council has never paid a subsidy for running unprofitable routes. It's illegal. A municipal company may decide to run routes which don't make the 12% profit the private companies like Arriva look for, or the Council can contract for socially needed routes (or Sundays or evenings say) but they can be won by any company (or sometimes a company can be paid for extending the daytime service). The company has paid profits to the Council over several years (having long paid off the initial debenture) and, while it may have to reduce frequencies (as have many private companies), it can return to profit again.

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Steve....

 

the bus company is over priced and underused... reduce the fares and more people may come back; but when you can get door to door service from a taxi for cheaper than you can get a bus to town, then something is seriously wrong and the company will not survive

 

Just look at the side door to Cockhedge; how many people queue for taxis everyday? a damned sight more than you see queuing for a bus that's for sure

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Reduce the fares by 20% and you need 25% more passengers to break even. It doesn't happen. Fare increases nearly always increase revenue - it's inelastic demand. You've obviously not set foot in the bus station if you think there are no queues for buses (but many people come in by bus but get a taxi back with bags of shopping). And if you think Netork Warrington is overpriced, try Merseyside (£2 flat fare with Stagecoach or £2.10 with Arriva). People need to see what happens elsewhere without a council-owned company: http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/10497889.Arriva_brings_in_cheaper_bus_fares_in_wake_of_St_Helens_Council_criticism/

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Reduce the fares by 20% and you need 25% more passengers to break even. It doesn't happen. Fare increases nearly always increase revenue - it's inelastic demand. You've obviously not set foot in the bus station if you think there are no queues for buses (but many people come in by bus but get a taxi back with bags of shopping). And if you think Netork Warrington is overpriced, try Merseyside (£2 flat fare with Stagecoach or £2.10 with Arriva). People need to see what happens elsewhere without a council-owned company: http://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/10497889.Arriva_brings_in_cheaper_bus_fares_in_wake_of_St_Helens_Council_criticism/

 

Steve....

 

Why don't the council chuck a few million quid my way into our company? With a few exceptions (and I'm talking about a couple of lads from Chester and Crewe) we have only ever employed people from Warrington and mainly from the council estates where we grew up... the company is 15 years old and still manages to turn a profit every year; despite cutbacks and recessions... a few million would come in real handy... it would allow us to expand and compete with the big Southern companies that seem to get all the Council contracts for building new schools and leisure centres... The last major school refurbishment job I can remember that used a local building contractor was about 4 or 5 years ago for the New Horizons and the builder used almost entirely local contractors to carry out the various jobs on site

 

Back to the buses.....If your logic about reducing fares by 20% means you need an 25% more passengers just to break even; does the reverse also apply?

 

Meaning that if you Increase fares by 20% do you get a drop in passenger numbers by 25%or 20& or 15% or even 10%? because if that is also the case, eventually if the fares keep going up; you will run out of passengers who want to pay the crazily high prices and you will be left with a few fare paying passengers and a bus load of concessionary passengers. That is just not a sustainable business model unless the Council are prepared to carry on ploughing money into it; something which your esteemed Leader Mr O'Neil has already said will not happen.

 

You political types really need to come to terms with the fact that people just do not in general use buses anymore and the attempts over the years by the Council to price them out of their cars and back onto buses with car park charges, parking fines and traffic light and road systems designed by a man and a guide dog just will not work.

 

Bus fares are too high.... it even costs £2.00 a day for my son to get a bus from Westbrook to Sankey High and back.... back in the 80's I could get from Bewsey to Boteler Grammar in Latchford for a fraction of his one way ticket by comparison.

 

Oh, and I do think Network Warrington is overpriced..... and personally I wouldn't call a short term, temporary reduction in prices by a national bus company anything special.

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 The company has paid profits to the Council over several years (having long paid off the initial debenture) and, while it may have to reduce frequencies (as have many private companies), it can return to profit again.

 

 

What is the stradegy for the buses to make a profit?

 

I actually went on a bus this week, my car was in repair, cost £2 one way into town, still had to walk from the bus station to the garage.

 

The three other people on the bus were all older with bus passes, one only went one stop. Does anyone know who pays for the bus passes?

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Off topic sorry but why can you not compete now for local contracts. curious?

 

PS: Couldn't post underneith for some rerason

 

. a few million would come in real handy... it would allow us to expand and compete with the big Southern companies that seem to get all the Council contracts for building new schools and leisure centres... The last major school refurbishment job I can remember that used a local building contractor was about 4 or 5 years ago for the New Horizons and the builder used almost entirely local contractors to carry out the various jobs on site
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Off topic sorry but why can you not compete now for local contracts. curious?

 

We do compete for local contracts and do so very successfully on a day to day, smaller projects basis....

 

The problems come when an entire large build contract is handed over to the "Main Contractor" this almost always means a huge building company of the likes that built the Orford Park site, Culcheth High School or some of the smaller schools that have popped up in recent years. When that happens; they tend to use their "preferred contractors" who are generally from down south or certainly not from the local area in my experience.

 

I personally will not work for builders unless I am absolutely guaranteed that they will pay me on my terms and not theirs; theirs usually being somewhere in the order of 90-150 days from invoice date and then they also apply retentions which they always try to get out of repaying..... A company my size should not have to fund a huge building company; particularly when they work on staged payments and get chunks of money handed up front and during the life of the project.

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The cost of my bus pass comes out of the taxes and NI I have paid every year for the last 45 years (and am still paying incidentally). It's a very small part of the Welfare State.

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I agree with Baz, on these crap preferred supplier lists, extremely hard to get onto, and involve someone getting bribed in my opinion, or you have to have a relative in the right council department to get anywhere near one.

 

 I thought all contracts were open to tender?

 

I know the bidding process can be very costly and complecated, I presumed that is why the larger companies tend to win them.

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The cost of my bus pass comes out of the taxes and NI I have paid every year for the last 45 years (and am still paying incidentally). It's a very small part of the Welfare State.

 

so how do bus companies get their money? The people just showed the pass to the driver it was not registed anywhere as far as I could tell

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I only wish they were open to all, their is a little thing called the Achilles data base amongst many other things

 

Achillies started with the power companies and spread, its all over the place now, you have to pay to be on it, if your not on it you can't tender

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 I thought all contracts were open to tender?

 

I know the bidding process can be very costly and complecated, I presumed that is why the larger companies tend to win them.

 

In theory; yes.... however as you say, it is mainly the big companies that win the contracts..... and then they screw the smaller companies to the ground in order to get their huge profits which make them a large company!

 

Had it done to us a few times over the years..... but that was before I refused to play their games. It may cost me business, but better not to owe my suppliers money, pay wages and then have to worry about getting paid at the end of it all.... I am a lot more choosy about who I do business with these days

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so how do bus companies get their money? The people just showed the pass to the driver it was not registed anywhere as far as I could tell

I don't know which bus company you were on Coffee, but all the buses I know about (Network Warrington, Arriva, First) have a card reader on top of the ticket machine.You have to place your card on the machine and it checks whether it is valid and saves the details in memory for sorting out the costs. As for who pays, I'm not sure if it comes from the treasury or part from local government and part from central. It's called the English National Concessionary Travel scheme. It's valid on all buses in England. Scotland and Wales have their own schemes.

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