UKIP under attack.

[Lt Kije]

Obs the EU treaty also gives UK workers the write to move round the EU and work, its not one way traffic as you would have us believe.

[observer]

 Sometimes you don't realise how funny some of your statements are!  As Baz is fond of reminding you, we're "free" to work in the likes of Bulgaria for a goat a week!  If life is so wonderfull in eastern Europe, why are they all coming over here in droves? Couldn't be our benefits system is better could it?!

[Bazj]

An immigrant is an immigrant Baz regardless of where they come from

That wasn't the point you were trying to push Kije as well you know. The immigrants I have listed have been here for a long time and were allowed to come here to fill what was a genuine labour shortage.

 

We do not have a labour shortage here and to allow eastern Europeans free reign to scoop up jobs for less than our own people will work for is criminal in itself.

 

If you believe that every young person (1 million or more) who is unemployed; does not want to work, you are a complete buffoon. Who do you think was doing these jobs prior to the flood from Poland?

 

So do you agree that the EU should set a minimum wage across the whole of Europe? that way, your repetitive crazy statements about our people being able to go and work in Rumania may hold some credence..... otherwise it is complete nonsense as you are no doubt well aware

[Lt Kije]

Genuine labour shortage Baz, god forbid, are you saying we have a labour shortage of skilled Labour so we have to recruit abroad. tell me something I don't know, in fact tell Obs

[Davy51]

Isn't the minimum wage supposed to be a Euro idea anyway ?

[Bazj]

Genuine labour shortage Baz, god forbid, are you saying we have a labour shortage of skilled Labour so we have to recruit abroad. tell me something I don't know, in fact tell Obs

 

No... I am saying we do not have an unskilled job shortage but we are still being inundated with cheap labour from eastern Europe which is pushing our own kids outand it will be even worse from January...... Employment agencies are the worst offenders

 

and what skilled jobs are we short of that suddenly requires such a massive influx of foreign labour? or is it just a made up shortage so they could get foreigners in on the cheap as a supposed solution?

 

I find it amazing that you will harp on about the price of houses and the difficulties our young folk have in buying houses and saving deposits and yet you are so in favour of stopping them working to pay for these houses they can't afford by allowing foreigners to take the "entry level" jobs.... maybe it isn't all down to the nasty landlords after all.... maybe some of the blame has to be put at the feet of you nasty euro lovers who are depriving them of work

 

or maybe you could suggest they go and work in a field in Bulgaria for a euro an hour and after sending back money to save for a deposit they could sleep 20 to a barn or something

[Antisthenes]

The primary failing of the EU is that it is a club of unequal partners. Any other group anyone might join throughout their entire life depends upon commonality. We join because we have and enjoy similar things. That is precisely what we don't have with the EU. The UK stayed out of Schengen to protect our borders and other European countries, particularly France, has made us suffer for it ever since. The UK withdrew from the Exchange Rate Mechanism, having met the criteria, and rejected the Euro whilst other nations whose economies failed to meet the criteria were allowed in - Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain - and Europe has made us suffer ever since.

The original idea of a trading group among similar economies was a good one, but removing our manufacturing base and allowing big business and employment agencies to drive down our standard of living by importing cheap labour is virtually criminal. It's not just that other Europeans are prepared to work for less: there are other factors that allow them to undercut our standard of living. If anyone is interested, I will list them. 

The very least we, as Britons, deserve is a referendum on Europe to decide our future. You have much less say than you think.

[Lt Kije]

The UK falls out the the exchange rate mechanism,and The EU punishes for it, what have the EU done to punish us!

It was George Soros speculating on the UK currency that caused us to fall out of the mechanism

 

[Antisthenes]

We have recently been bailing out Eurozone countries despite not being in the Euro. Our economy has suffered significantly following the collapse of the Spanish and Greek banking systems. Admittedly, our banking system has been stuffed full of crooks for many years and that has cost us dearly as a nation and as individuals too.

[observer]

So the sooner we leave the EU the better.

[Davy51]

I  think any matter involving France leaves Britain vulnerable to being stabbed in the back.

[Lt Kije]

Sorry Antstistenes, you said we are being punished by the EU, we are clearly not, are economy has suffered due to the near collapse of the banking system world wide, so can you explain how we are being deliberately punished..

[Lt Kije]

Davy, where do you get your view of France from?

[Davy51]

I am a Francophobe....ever since the original application to join the Common Market & the repeated objections of De Gaulle  to refuse entry to a country that stood up & gave refuge to Free French forces  until they could, later in the War, return in triumph to Paris.

[asperity]

More power to De Gaulle I say. A pity we were ever allowed in to the toxic club. De Gaulle objected to our entry because he didn't believe the UK was in a fit state to be a member at the time, not for any anti-British sentiment.

 

If we don't have any manufacturing, what are all these cheap immigrants doing?

[Bazj]

Kije.... I know how easy you get distracted trying to defend the indefensible.... but any chance you could answer my points

from earlier?

 

and what skilled jobs are we short of that suddenly requires such a massive influx of foreign labour? or is it just a made up shortage so they could get foreigners in on the cheap as a supposed solution?

 

I find it amazing that you will harp on about the price of houses and the difficulties our young folk have in buying houses and saving deposits and yet you are so in favour of stopping them working to pay for these houses they can't afford by allowing foreigners to take the "entry level" jobs.... maybe it isn't all down to the nasty landlords after all.... maybe some of the blame has to be put at the feet of you nasty euro lovers who are depriving them of work

 

or maybe you could suggest they go and work in a field in Bulgaria for a euro an hour and after sending back money to save for a deposit they could sleep 20 to a barn or something

 

 

 

[Lt Kije]

I am a Francophobe....ever since the original application to join the Common Market & the repeated objections of De Gaulle  to refuse entry to a country that stood up & gave refuge to Free French forces  until they could, later in the War, return in triumph to Paris.

 

So your a Francophobe because De Gaulle would not let us in the EEC, which later became the EU, an organisation you want us out of, I would have thought you would be with Asp, and thanking him, you dislike the French because of one French man!!!, how blinkered is that?

[Lt Kije]

Baz, it is up to the employers who they employ for the entry level jobs, you have to ask why with a minimum wage they are taking on immigrants. As I stated the NHS depend on immigrants.

[asperity]

Francophobe = someone who dislikes the French.

 

Francophone = someone who understands/speaks French.

 

Here endeth the first lesson. Amen.

[Davy51]

You are correct Kije ,i do want to come out of the EU ,however the Common Market was pursued  as a trading partnership  & seemed a good idea at the time especially when linked with a pan European peace dividend. The man /woman in the street never envisaged the political & financial shambles it would become within 40 years .

[Davy51]

I think some people on this forum are caught up in a time of the month event ,mentally speaking .

[Antisthenes]

Lt Kije - I didn't say 'deliberately' punished, however we are compelled by virtue of membership to support countries that don't have our standard of living or the unity to defend European borders or apply European law in quite the same way we try to do - as a result we are punished by having to put up with others' folly. Sangatte is a good example of France 'deliberately' attacking Britain over a prolonged period. The local French people suffered hugely too. I do not come on here to split hairs particularly, but the points I make are not made lightly. These things have been going on for a number of years. The effects of Europe are creeping like a glacier.

 

Asperity - the immigrants to which you refer fill the service-based jobs upon which our country is allegedly based. We are a little sheltered here in Warrington, but should you ever venture to London you will experience the effects of European and non-European immigration in full.

[Lt Kije]

Why are you holding the French responsible and not all the other Countries they have pat through to get their, nobody including the UK wants to take any responsibility for them because of cost implications. You do not want any responsibility or cost, well neither does France, you can hardly blame them for that, but you are!!, these people are purely economic migrants I feel sorry for them and I do not really blame them for trying. France knows they are trying to leave, and they are happy when they do, they are only doing what all the other Countries have done they have past though, perhaps the UK should help out with financial aid, as it's this Country they are trying to get to. But to pick France out as trying to get one over on the UK, is wrong, All Countries in the EU should pay to protect EU borders it should not be left to the likes of Greece and Spain who have land borders with non EU members who have not got the money.

[Antisthenes]

With which non-EU member does Spain have a land border? As far as France is concerned, I was merely giving an example, however as a direct result of the Schengen Agreement they don't have control of their own borders which, as a sovereign nation, one needs to protect its status as such.

[Lt Kije]

Ceuta and Melilla are Spanish enclaves in Africa oh cynical one,

 

What you want with France is for them to protect and pay for the protection of our borders for us.