robocop Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Surprised the usual suspects have not been debating this item which has made TV coverage!! Debate ....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 our lot think debate is worms you use when fishing on the river dee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 I was waiting for Cllrs Settle or Parish to start the ball rolling with what they thought of the pay rises...... and to paraphrase...."I may be waiting some time" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Does this pay rise involve the council manual workers or are they covered by a pay freeze? How can they justify 14% ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 They justify it by trying to kid us with the usual lines that the public sector uses "They would go elsewhere if we didn't pay them the going rate for the job" In the private sector, have you ever seen the following posts? “future shape programme manager” (North East Lincolnshire council on £70,189 a year) "assistant director for supporting communities" (Liverpool City Council on £90,000 a year) “cheerleading development officer” in Falkirk "Walking coordinator" (Islington Council on £31,395 a year) Of course the councillors would argue these are worthy jobs, but would they really get jobs like that in the private sector? and who would want to employ someone that can add "Walking coordinator" to their CV? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 and who would want to employ someone that can add "Walking coordinator" to their CV? He needs to get on his bike and get a proper job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 He needs to get on his bike and get a proper job. and he probably thinks that 20mph is an outrageous speed and 4mph is more like it should be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Baz.... "future shape programme manager, supporting.., cheerleading, walking...' Why is the 'Oooh bodyform' advert tune suddenly going around in my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 You'll all have a vote in May ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 I don't think the handful of voters on the forum will do significant damage to the incumbents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Just been reading a news article about South Yorks ,the average male wage has dropped by £40 since 2006 while public sector pay marches on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 while public sector pay marches on. Strange, because Gideon implemented a pay freeze in 2011-12 and 2012-13, and council employers imposed a pay freeze a year before the government, so earnings have fallen by more than 18% in the last four years add to that half a million local government employees being paid below the living wage and I am left wondering where the public sector are marching to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Good point Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 As I understand it public sector pay was frozen for 2 years and capped at 1% rise for 3 years including this one. I wouldn't call a 1% cap a freeze. Like many others in the private sector I've seen my salary frozen for over 3 years and benefits cut. Germany managed to get to the top in Europe by clamping down on salaries in the 80s and 90s and is now seeing the benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Problem is Asp; it's bottom salaries that are being cut, not top salaries; as the topic highlights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Just saying what was in the article . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Problem is Asp; it's bottom salaries that are being cut, not top salaries; as the topic highlights. The salaries of people at the top in the public sector operate on a positive feedback loop. Because they compare salaries against those of others within the public sector, there is a persistent drive to increase them, all sold on the basis that they're needed to attract the 'best people'. That is IMO the reason why we've seen salaries spiral. As observer says it's not an issue of what happens at the bottom (and middle). It's about what happens at the top where things are out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Employees in the upper echelons of councils play musical chairs, they change titles or move offices and call it restructuring which then attracts a higher salary. Councillors get there remuneration increased as a reward for playing the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Smoke and mirrors at the end of the day, and the Councillors fall for it every time. They reduce the top echelon of management, argue it's made a "saving" of a post or two; then argue that because of the additional responsibility and workload, the remaining Officers warrant the pay rise. Are they suggesting, that with this "extra workload", these senior Officers are now working 24/7, or is the reality that the work just gets filtered down to lower grades or worse, just doesn't get done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Posted September 14, 2013 Report Share Posted September 14, 2013 They justify it by trying to kid us with the usual lines that the public sector uses "They would go elsewhere if we didn't pay them the going rate for the job" In the private sector, have you ever seen the following posts? “future shape programme manager” (North East Lincolnshire council on £70,189 a year) "assistant director for supporting communities" (Liverpool City Council on £90,000 a year) “cheerleading development officer” in Falkirk "Walking coordinator" (Islington Council on £31,395 a year) Of course the councillors would argue these are worthy jobs, but would they really get jobs like that in the private sector? and who would want to employ someone that can add "Walking coordinator" to their CV? While you give few examples of jobs with silly titles the fact remains if you want someone to do a responsible job you need to pay them a decent salary. The lower skilled workers are in the same boat in the private sector with wages going down, pensions abolished while the higher paid personal are getting huge pay rises and walking away with pensions worth millions. Is it right no but that is what is happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted September 14, 2013 Report Share Posted September 14, 2013 While you give few examples of jobs with silly titles the fact remains if you want someone to do a responsible job you need to pay them a decent salary. They already get a decent salary Coffee... the problem is; the prats that are supposed to represent US the voter are allowing them to get a 14% hike in their salaries... which as Asp said, will merely contribute to the ever upward salary spiral of public sector manager jobs... Most of the directors in council positions just wouldn't cut it in the private sector. In my experience; very rarely do you see someone in a high powered local authority position leaving for a job in the private sector It is noticeable that the likes of Cllr Settle and Cllr Parish have yet to comment.... maybe we should drop a few mentions of butterflies or gypsy horses in somewhere? seeing as that appears to be more important to some than inflation busting pay rises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 14, 2013 Report Share Posted September 14, 2013 We currently have a system for senior LA management, similar to the Premiere League; which means large sums paid for "the best players". This is exacerbated by "competition" between Local Authorities, creating an upward spiral in top salaries. The excuse that's dragged out on these occasions, that "if you want the best people, you have to pay a decent salary", never seems to apply to lower grades however; and imo is all part of the bulls**t that is the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingoDave Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Going by results this "paying the best to get the best" doesn't seem to be actually working; looking at all levels of government, not just local. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeborn John Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 The 'best' self serving, unelected, career bureaucrats maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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