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Where are these horses now?


Geoffrey Settle
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Following a week of chasing horses earlier this month around Houghton Green lanes earlier this month I would like to know does anyone know where they have gone and are they safe? See story https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.405731319539938.1073741854.110886079024465&type=3&uploaded=1#!/media/set/?set=a.405731319539938.1073741854.110886079024465&type=1

 

These are the horses that were at Westy and ended up on Kingsway Bridge before then they went to Houghton Green Pool SINC for 4 months and had 3 foals. They were then let out onto Delph Lane. The herd then ran off at speed to rake refuge in the Plough Pub car park before ending up on the fields behind the Mill House Pub.  

 

It's really hard work keeping up with them but they were lead safely to a small paddock before the owner collected them the following day. Has anyone seen them since?

 

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Resting at Houghton Green Pool

 

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Off down Delph Lane

 

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Stopping off in the Plough Car Park

 

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Whoever owns the land at Houghton Green Pool needs to take urgent action in getting rid of the yellow weeds - RAGWORT - which is a notifiable weed for which landowner responsible for controlling, whether private landowner or local authority (I think we have had an earlier topic on Ragwort and Council responsibility). It is poisonous to horses if eaten but they will rarely touch it while growing. It is usually fatal when eaten accidentally with a mown hay crop or grass. Also can be harmful to humans, especially damaging to skin if pulled up with bare hands. Best dug up and burned.

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Were they traveller horses just being grazed for a few weeks ?

 

Yes but they are traveller Joe's horses and had been there for 4 months, they didn't eat the ragwort Pedro but the it was rapidly beoming all thast was left until they were let out. The ragwort down near by Radley lane has was treated 2 weeks ago. Houghton Green Pool SINC land is privately owned and I belive has just been sold - but I don't know who to yet. The area was peaceful and calm yesterday with no horses, no asb action and all the rubbish had gone - it was back to the wildlife that thrives there.

see WNCF FB update https://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/media/set/?set=a.438003869646016.1073741873.110886079024465&type=1

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I knew I should have kept the news to myself - 4 have returned to graze on the newly cut field next to Houghton Green Pool :| I've let the police know via 101 and emailed the local force because the farmers metal gate is wide open and it weighs a tonne. Hopefully the horses will not escape again onto Delph Lane but it's only a matter of time :evil:  The Horses mains are looking worse and really mattedand knotted with the heads of those sticky plants.

 

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Well at least you know where some of them are again now Geoff and that after all was your question on here :wink:

 

Maybe they are 'homing horses' and they like you :)

 

As for the matted and knotted manes you mention well if no one is grooming them it will happen and this latest spell of dry weather with the odd wet day wont help.   It's playing havoc with my hair too. 

 

They still look pretty healthy though but I wonder what has happened to the little foals :(

 

If you actually know who they belong to (ie this 'traveller Jo' bloke ) then surely you are part way there already and the previous land owner (who I seem to remember you saying gave permission for the horses to be there) should surely have the details of the new land owner by now who may/may not still be allowing the horses to be grazed there.. 

 

Maybe name the previous one and they will soon point you in the right direction of who is now responsible for the land etc :wink:    

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https://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/vanah.horses This organisation don't agree with you and have contacted me - hopefully they can offer some advice.

 

I am following a trail of evidence through the county courts to see what can be done and get a few more pieces of evidence - I'm finding that out aint as easy as you make out. The fact that he has put the horses on yet another private field with the gate left open speaks volumes on his alledged care for his horses - NONE whatsoever.

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No they don't - but taking up you suggestion do you think that they should and if so should they charge a grazing fee?

 

Geoff, if you can get money out of a bunch of <travellers> please go ahead..... every other council in the country as well as HMRC have tried and failed!

 

however if you can get money from them; think of a fee and treble it.... it may pay for all the stuff they have never paid for in the past!

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No they don't - but taking up you suggestion do you think that they should and if so should they charge a grazing fee?

 

Maybe some of the 'contingency land' of greens field sites previously earmarked for housing as part of the councils 'Local Plan Core Strategy'  up at Appleton, Grappenhall Heys, Pewterspear and Peel Hall etc could be used for horses now it's not needed for housing (Local news this week said the plan has been  changed and houses are now earmarked for Omega with the deletion from the plan of the others).

 

Seem to remember that the 'Homes and Communities' group (or what ever they used to be called or call themselves now) took over a lot of this land from the council and others so if there's nowt they can do with it now to make a profit then maybe just let the horses graze on it in safety for a while..... cuts down on grass maintenance too.

 

I guess the H&C? could always sell it at auction though to someone else and who knows maybe even  <travellers> might  buy it and move on with their family and their horses as developers probably wont be to keen now. 

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Baz and Dizzie, as well as fly-grazing the issue of WBC providing a 'travellers temporary site' and 58 permanent pitches has to also be taken into account.

 

There is a a local example of a temporary site in Widnes for which a charge is made and I believe that if Warrington had such a site then the travellers who park at the side of the road can be moved on a lot quicker.

 

However the big issue will be just as the 'garzing site' - where will it be situated in Warrington?

 

As for the HCA yes they do have land but they haven't sold it not because they can't bit because they need to manage and release it strategically.

 

Good to see that you are looking at the revised 'Local Core Strategic Plan' and reading Inspector Fox's comments.

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Who is Inspector Fox Geoff ?  Don't remember that name mentioned on the local news about the local plan but then again 'fox' does = 'wildlife' :lol:

 

Temporary sites for <travellers> (I did that for Baz) clearly don't work though as once temporary approval is granted then it sort of becomes a permanent fixture  doesn't it ?

 

Anyway... I'm more concerned about the poor horses in your many pics that have no say in the matter rather than the people who may/may not own them.

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There is a a local example of a temporary site in Widnes for which a charge is made and I believe that if Warrington had such a site then the travellers who park at the side of the road can be moved on a lot quicker.

 

Stick a couple of pitches on the Town Hall lawn then Geoff.... two would be enough and that way we could get rid of the bloody <travellers> sharpish instead of having to put up with their mess, animals, thieving and ripping people off; not to mention the foul language and anti-social behaviour that comes with them too..... I wonder why Ireland is not as accommodating as we seem to be in the UK? They certainly don't provide pitches and schools and other comforts for them

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Who is Inspector Fox Geoff ?  Don't remember that name mentioned on the local news about the local plan but then again 'fox' does = 'wildlife' :lol:

 

Temporary sites for <travellers> (I did that for Baz) clearly don't work though as once temporary approval is granted then it sort of becomes a permanent fixture  doesn't it ?

 

Anyway... I'm more concerned about the poor horses in your many pics that have no say in the matter rather than the people who may/may not own them.

Apologies Dizzy - As far as I'm aware he was the gentleman who chaired the Inquiry - unless he was unseated.

I should have said 'A site within the Borough to meet the needs of Travellers' where they pay a fee for staying there until they travel on their journey - a bit like the site that Halton manages.

Meanwhile after escaping again this week the 4 horses are back lakeside looking worn out and bemused :(

 

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I should have said 'A site within the Borough to meet the needs of Travellers' where they pay a fee for staying there until they travel on their journey - a bit like the site that Halton manages.

 

Why do we need (or should we now have) a transit site too like Halton as surely people can just use that as it's only up the road and it doesn't take long to drive through Warrington and out the other side...... actually saying that !?!

 

Didn't Halton's transit gypsy/traveller transit site cost around 3/4 of a million pounds too in the end? 13 piches, each capable of accommodation two vans and two vehicles (parents and kids vans maybe?), only vans with people over the age of 18 have to pay the £11 a night unit charge (or whatever it is now). Shower blocks, toilets and elec etc....

 

From what I understand people can stay there on there for up to 3 months too so hardly just a legal stop off point for a rest before continuing their journey.

 

Then there's the application for pitches, licence agreements, conditions and as already mentioned 'fees'.... I can't see any of the gypse/traveller people who are just passing through for a few days or weeks even bothering with that route to be honest when they can just pull up anywhere in the knowledge that it will take at least a week before they can be moved on.

 

I realise there are many boxes to be ticked and rules in place for gypsy/travellers but what about everyone else ? There seems to be a never ending need to 'accomodate' these people and funds available (not to mention land and planning permission after appeal if they buy it themselves).  At the end of the day they have chosen to continue their cultural way of life and we have not forced it on them.

 

How about using the money to creating a caravan park somewhere local as nice as Halton's for local underprivileged/disabled/ill kids and their families to go to for a weekend as although it's still local it's a change to their daily routine and I'm sure it would be welcomed. 

 

Or how about spending it on community centres and youth clubs or  things like that to benefit the people who actually live here 24/7 rather than those just passing  through.

 

The more we do to tick boxes for gypsy/travellers the more will travel through this way. 

 

Sorry and I know that sounds harsh but it's the way it is in my opinion.

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Well said Dizzy.....Even the most basic of camping sites charge more than £20 a night and extra for electricity....

 

The problem is, the more you pander to these minorities, the more they expect and expect it for nothing; while the rest of us have to suffer and pay for it.... personally I would rather see weekly bin collections returned than to use OUR money to pay for their way of life

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Well they seem to pitch up with complete impunity now anywhere they feel like it Geoff.... latest one was round here in Westbrook sat in between the stores at Martin Dawes and the Barclays bank. Rubbish everywhere as usual and they were there for a while....

 

Aren't you allowed to just confiscate their possessions like caravans if they refuse to comply with the law? It would be interesting if a council actually did and then ask for proof of ownership and how they actually paid for them and where the money came from....

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The photo of the horses hoof disgusts me, the hoof has been crudely pared back with a pair of pincers by someone who did not know or care what they were doing and there is no way it could be shod in that condition, you couldn't even fit a medical shoe with the hoof in that state, the hoof needs constant attention until the hoof outer wall and inner laminae have grown even and that needs monitering and trimming by a farrier on a regular basis and that,s unlikely to happen, left like that the poor bugger will go lame, that's if it already hasn't.

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Oooh Algy when I saw that picture I just thought it had chipped away from the different surfaces the poor horse had been on but now you mention it I see what you mean :(   I always thought the rugged Gypsy/traveller type horses weren't shod too for some strange reason. 

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Alternatively I could get some cards printed for Dizzy's Pitch Stop - what address and directions should I use and how many can you accommodate :P ?

 

If I had a field or small holding Geoff I'd welcome those horses with open arms (they would have to be signed over to me though)..... so feel free to give me the funds to buy one out of the pot of money if you like as I'd really like that. :) 

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The photo of the horses hoof disgusts me, the hoof has been crudely pared back with a pair of pincers by someone who did not know or care what they were doing and there is no way it could be shod in that condition, you couldn't even fit a medical shoe with the hoof in that state, the hoof needs constant attention until the hoof outer wall and inner laminae have grown even and that needs monitering and trimming by a farrier on a regular basis and that,s unlikely to happen, left like that the poor bugger will go lame, that's if it already hasn't.

My experiences of horses of any time is what I have come across since these horses were dumped at the Houghton Green Pool SINC. The reason that I posted the photographs was because I was concerned about their well-being. Your comments Algy just confirm my fears and concerns. :cry:

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After contacting a friend of mine who was a blacksmith/farrier (he continued in the trade whereas I left and went into industry) he informed me that the hoof damage may have been caused by the horse trimming it's own feet by 'Flaring', this is when the outer wall of the hoof flares outward and up until it breaks off leaving jagged edges, it's how wild horses living constantly on the soft ground of large areas in europe trim their hooves and it is a natural process, however if the horse then spends time on a hard surface it will cause further damage to the hoof, it really demonstrates that the horses you came across Geoff have and are being neglected!.

 

I intended to post a picture of a horses suffering from hoof curl as a result of neglect and being left on grass without being shod for a long period but decided not as some of you may find it too distressing.

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