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The battle of the Atlantic -


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There's a celebration in Liverpool this week-end, in memory of all the over 50,000 Merchant seaman, RN and RAF who lost their lives, ensuring that a besieged UK was re-supplied during WW2.  The German U-boat fleet suffered the highest casualties of any of their military arms, with over 70,000 consigned to the depths of the ocean, 8 out every 10 that took part.

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My uncle who could not join any of the forces in WW2 because of illness ,instead joined the fire brigade & was assigned to the fireboats  trying to save the ships & warehouses during some of the heaviest bombing of the war. He used to travel from Warrington to Liverpool in all weathers by motor bike.

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spent the day in Liverpool at the event.... oddest thing was seeing a German Minesweeper parked up.... a little odd to have the Germans at a celebration of the Battle of the Atlantic...... but there were no French there which was about right!! :lol:  :lol: :lol:  

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What is interesting about this, is that it was ultimately a race of technical innovation; and the close co-operation between the scientists and the military in Britain, secured an advantage. The efficiency we usually associate with the Germans, was undermined by the chaotic administration of the Nazis. If we could win such a race in war time, it poses the question why can't we do it in peace time, in this era of global competition?

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Obs, we have always gelled and pulled together as a nation, even the coalition government worked well during the war, it seems to be that if we have an enemy to attack we are at our best but once it is settled we turn inwards on one and other.

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Not quite the case Alg;  in the early stages of the Atlantic Campaign, we suffered from inter-service rivalry (big brass egos in Whitehall etc); it wasn't till they set up a combined arms HQ in Liverpool that things started to improve.

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Another funny part of yesterday;

 

There were tours available of the ships that were docked.... HMS Pembroke, Gromitz (the German ship, a Canadian ship and the Russian one..... the tours were all open apart from the Russian ship... no explanation but I think it was partly because most of the Russian crew were in Primark judging by the number of Russian sailors with their Primark bags walking around! :lol:

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spent the day in Liverpool at the event.... oddest thing was seeing a German Minesweeper parked up.... a little odd to have the Germans at a celebration of the Battle of the Atlantic...... but there were no French there which was about right!! :lol::lol: :lol:
Free French ships took part in the Battle of the Atlantic, as did French merchant sea men.

 

I have no idea where you got your history from Baz, but it is so wrong!!!!!

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Free French ships took part in the Battle of the Atlantic, as did French merchant sea men.

 

I have no idea where you got your history from Baz, but it is so wrong!!!!!

Can you name the Free French Naval ships Lt, it shouldn't be hard as there were only a handfull, I don't expect you to name the seamen though, as clever as you are I don't think even you could manage that!.

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There were large numbers of sailors stationed at Stretton during the war;  many awaiting repatriation to "Vichy" France. The big fight at the Casino, started with the Poles (who hated the French for dropping their slacks to the Germans). Believe the fight spilled out along Bridge St and was finally kettled in Queens Gardens. So my Dad tells me anyway!

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Can you name the Free French Naval ships Lt, it shouldn't be hard as there were only a handfull, I don't expect you to name the seamen though, as clever as you are I don't think even you could manage that!.

 

I did have a better link algy, it also gave good info on the U boats ( good for general intrest )

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_Free_French_Naval_Forces

 

I will did out the better link, but this does list the Free French.

 

Just as a point of intrest, weren't most of the convoy escorts Canadian and not British as most on here would think :wink:

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Lt, I can only find reference to the following French naval ships being involved in Atlantic convoys, it appears that not only did we destroy their capital ships, most of their fleet was either scuttled or commandered by the German navy.

 

The Free French corvette Aconit (ex Br. Aconite, 925 tons) sank 2 U-boats on the the same day. They were U-444 and U-432 on 11 March, 1943 in the North Atlantic.

The Free French corvette Lobelia (ex Br. Lobelia, 925 tons) sank U-609 on 7 February, 1943 in the North Atlantic.

 

SUNK

U-654 sank the corvette Alysse (ex Br. Alyssum 925 tons, type "Flower") on 8 February, 1942 in the Atlantic.

U-124 sank the corvette Mimosa (ex Br. Mimosa) on 9 June, 1942 in the North Atlantic.

 

Other French Naval Vessels Active in the Atlantic but close to the British or French shores. (these were British naval vessels crewed by Free French navy crews.) All lost at St. Nazaire, france.

 

ML 192 Motor Launch

 

ML 262 Motor Launch

 

ML 267 Motor Launch

 

ML 268 Motor Launch

 

I can't find any reference to the ratio of British to Canadian convoy escort duty, however the Canadians were very involved and lost over 2000 naval crew and 12000 canadian merchant navy crew for the duration of the battle. they also served on Gibraltr and Russian convoys.

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The Germans did not take any French ships, the Britsh fleet sank or damaged the French Medertarion fleet, most of te French fleet was scuttled in Toulon by the French themselves,when the Germans invaded Vichey France

 

Algy, you also need to take into account the number of French that served on Allied ships.

 

The Canadian navy grew from 3500 men to 95000 men

 

Nothing to do with the French but this is a good link for anyone wanting to know about the battle of the Atlantic

 

http://www.naval-history.net/WW2CampaignsAtlanticDev.htm

 

I can find and have never heard of anything about the poles not liking the French, I would say it was a lie, because the Poles after the fall of their Country fought in France for the French.

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..... but there were no French there which was about right!! :lol:  :lol: :lol:  

Get over yourself Lt Kije. This is what Baz said and he was referring to the attendance at the celebrations not to the actual Battle. Sense of humour by-pass as I said.

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No this is what he said

 

spent the day in Liverpool at the event.... oddest thing was seeing a German Minesweeper parked up.... a little odd to have the Germans at a celebration of the Battle of the Atlantic...... but there were no French there which was about right!! :lol::lol: :lol:

Your quote took it out of context

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Lt, you are not correct when you say that the Germans did not take any French ships they captured the French Navay Aurore class submarine Q195 Favorit and commissioned it into the German Navy as UF-2 in May 1941 they used  it as a training submarine. The submarine was initially commanded by Krvkpt. Georg Lange, who served from November 1942 to October 1943, his wifes name was Elga and they had three children Heinrich, Gelda and Thieri, his mothers name was Freda who was second cousin to Herma Goring.

 

Why would I want to take account of the number of French serving on Allied ships, or are you being your usual devious slithering self as usual!, as far as I was aware we were discussing the British and Canadian Navies then the Free French crept in now your starting to discuss what nationalities the crews were, no wonder obs becoms abusive to you. I would love to stand in a pub bar and listen to you, I could well imagine some demented soul ramming a pint pot down your throat.

In my previous reply to you on this topic I attempted to be civil and helpfull providing some information and yes I was partially incorrect on one point (I'm not perfect!), however I'm finding it increasingly difficult to hold a descent screen conversation with you so I may just as well be rude from the onset.

Robbo mate, just to let you know I haven't lost it, just totally miffed with Lt's attiude, I think the guy needs help. (no smilies, couldn't find one to suit).

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Many French and other Europeans fought FOR the Germans in National SS units; so their contribution to the Allied war effort could be considered mixed. The Poles probably didn't think much of us either, for not acting aggressively during the "phoney war" and rescueing them from the full force of the Wearmacht.

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Google has a lot to answer for, we may end up with a Battle of Sankey Brook. :wink:

Wolfie you must admit it makes a change from you and I 'having a go' so to say, you have been very quiet just lately, I trust you are well. I think you've got me weighed up though. :D:wink:

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