observer Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 I have reservations about "the death penalty"; as we've seen over the years, we have a flawed legal system prone to unsafe convictions. However, I have less difficulty with the idea of Police Armed response teams shooting to kill, armed assailants who have just committed an horrendous murder in front of loads of spectators and cameras. The added advantage being, a saving on legal aid and prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Yes the death penalty does reduce the re-offending rate somewhat...................................... Asp I think your subtle humour went right over their heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Fairly obvious Alg; assuming you hang the right person, they definitely won't do it again. Think however, you have to ask, does it deter - the evidence doesn't support the deterent theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 It deters the person who has been hung. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Erm. nope; it didn't "deter" them, just prevents them reoffending! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 I think this on line conversation is getting 'silly', just my opinion though!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Semantics Obs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 No need for name calling Asp!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 So what happen if you get the death penalty, and as has happened in the past our justice system has got it wrong, will the family of the dead person have recourse to the law, will it leave the State liable to a murder charge. How do you compensate, depending on what religion you are,most of us are only on the planet once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 So what happen if you get the death penalty, and as has happened in the past our justice system has got it wrong, will the family of the dead person have recourse to the law, will it leave the State liable to a murder charge. How do you compensate, depending on what religion you are,most of us are only on the planet once. Hang on!. El Tee, there are murders committed that are 100% proven, the very recent execution of young Lee Rigby for one!, PCs Fiona Bone and Nicola Hughes in Mottram for two. where do they fit into your plan of action, their executioners will be provided with all the modern comforts supplied and paid for by us tax payers, their parents, husbands, wives families friends and workmates making a reluctant contribution to their welfare. Do you agree and think that is just and fair, please give me an honest answer and not a scheming politicians answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 I am against capital punishment, always have been and always will be. It does not work as a deterrent, America proves that, Some States that have it have higher crime stats than those that don't . The Guilford 5 would have been executed had we the option, turned out they were innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 You can't compare with America. Two totally different cultures. The only gun culture here is amongst the criminals and terrorists. No reason why those who confess shouldn't die. If that was to happen, it "might" make people think twice before going around shooting/killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 I am against capital punishment, always have been and always will be. It does not work as a deterrent, America proves that, Some States that have it have higher crime stats than those that don't . The Guilford 5 would have been executed had we the option, turned out they were innocent. I politely asked you to refrain from giving me a politicians answer El Tee, just answer my question regarding your feelings about the relatives etc. of the two police women and Lee Rigby and their contribution to keeping the killers of in a protected environment with the best medical and other benifits that the state can provide for their well being, I am not asking your opinion regarding capital punishment, just require an honest answer to my question - Simples!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Lt Kije, while I understand and respect your reservations regarding capital punishment because of the chance of mistakes being made, don't you think that when the evidence is incontroversial the case is proven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Fair question Asp, Justice and vengence are not the same and never will be. algy I did not give you a politicians answer. I just think the question is crap, Let me turn it around, What would the family of someone put to death by the State think if it turned out to be a wrongful conviction. And we have had some great wrongful convictions in our system. Was their not a man in the UK that did hang for killing a Policeman and their now is doubt over whether he did it. Thats a very big "might " you have in the middle of your sentence, It reads just as well with "might not" and you cannot right off the evidence from the USA because it does not suit your argument. It is a fact that in the USA the States that have the death penalty have seen no reduction in their crime rate, so why would it here. The only real argument is that it would save money as you don't have to feed them. Sorry that is not enough for the State to play God as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 And "playing God" means exactly what? Killing people because your "God" tells you to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Sorry Asp, I have no God, Do you believe in the death penalty Asp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted May 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 So what happen if you get the death penalty, and as has happened in the past our justice system has got it wrong, will the family of the dead person have recourse to the law, will it leave the State liable to a murder charge. How do you compensate, depending on what religion you are, most of us are only on the planet once. So what happens if you get rid of the death penalty, and as has happened in the past our justice system has got it wrong and let a convicted murderer out after 10 years who then goes on to kill again? will the family of the dead person have recourse to the law, will it leave the State liable to a murder charge. How do you compensate, depending on what religion you are, most of us are only on the planet once. Your argument Kije is a total crock of shit. You have never been there and never seen it. You are basing your ideas on the possibilities that the people who get their convictions quashed were totally innocent and not convicted on made up evidence because the Cops couldn't get the evidence they actually needed to convict the people they knew were guilty.... personally I have never been convinced that some of those with their sentences quashed ARE innocent. I think it was more a case that the cops took the easy option and got caught out instead of getting the thing right the first time. In many of these cases, the police will often say that they are not looking for anyone else in connection with the crime. Just like the Stephen Lawrence murder. The cops knew who had done it but couldn't get the evidence to convict.... only repealing the "double Jeopardy" laws helped in that case...... I have paid my taxes for 25 years next month to keep a murderer in prison..... (a double murderer because he got out after 10 and killed again.... tell his second victims family that is how it should be because YOU think it is right) and 25 years down the line, I would slit his throat without a second thought and watch him die with a smile on my face....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 You have never been personally convinced Baz, thats up to you, I take it you have a Law degree and know more about the law than me, maybe you practice, get real Baz. You don't need the death penalty to make a murder do life Baz instead of 10 years, and just because the Police say they are not looking for anyone else doe not mean the original party is guilty, it just means they have not got any evidence. You want croc of shite, I suggest you read your own post. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted May 24, 2013 Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 Sorry Asp, I have no God, Do you believe in the death penalty Asp? In a word - yes. I believe the death penalty is what society demands of the legal system to show the potential muderer that he/she is facing more than a slap on the wrist. To try and play the "death sentence is no deterrent" card is naiive in the extreme. So the murder rate increases with the death sentence extant, what evidence do you have that it wouldn't be immeasureably higher without it? As for your "Sorry Asp, I have no God," well it was you that brought the God you don't have into it in the first place (and I quote "Sorry that is not enough for the State to play God as far as I am concerned.") Carry on waffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted May 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2013 You have never been personally convinced Baz, thats up to you, I take it you have a Law degree and know more about the law than me, maybe you practice, get real Baz. You don't need the death penalty to make a murder do life Baz instead of 10 years, and just because the Police say they are not looking for anyone else doe not mean the original party is guilty, it just means they have not got any evidence. You want croc of shite, I suggest you read your own post. Kije.... you really do know nothing about the subject. I don't want them to "do" life; I want them to lose their life for taking the life of another..... not for me to have to pay my taxes for 25 years to keep murderers in better living standards than pensioners.... and as for no evidence; they often do have evidence; it just isn't enough to satisfy the DPP in bringing a prosecution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Anyone who does not believe in God has no right to refer to God in a discussion as in 'Oh my God!' and 'Playing God' or 'Good God'. Anyone who uses such expletives is really displaying a subconscious belief in God no matter how much they may consciously insist that there is no God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 Fair question Asp, Justice and vengence are not the same and never will be. algy I did not give you a politicians answer. I just think the question is crap, Let me turn it around, What would the family of someone put to death by the State think if it turned out to be a wrongful conviction. And we have had some great wrongful convictions in our system. Was their not a man in the UK that did hang for killing a Policeman and their now is doubt over whether he did it. YOU THINK THE QUESTION IS CRAP!!!, so you are stating that the feelings of those families of the individuals I quoted are worthless, I asked you a simple straight forward question and you chose not to give an honest answer, I gave two examples where there was 100% proof that the killers were guilty and you had not got the balls to answer 'yes or no', you elected instead to choose a cowards way out. You certainly chose a forum name to reflect your personality - "Lieutenant Kije", a ficticious shallow character of dubious honesty who chose to use deception and lies for his betterment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted May 25, 2013 Report Share Posted May 25, 2013 YOU THINK THE QUESTION IS CRAP!!!, Hey up, algy's lost it again, he's using BIG letters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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