Was It Worth It!

[algy]

Scores die in wave of Iraq bombs.

The full report is on:-

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/news/world/article/scores-die-in-wave-of-iraq-bombs/88628/

Published: 8:58am, 20th May 2013
Updated: 5:31pm, 20th May 2013

 

A wave of attacks has killed up to 80 people in Shiite and Sunni areas of Iraq extending one of the most sustained bouts of sectarian violence the country has seen in years.

The bloodshed is still far shy of the pace, scale and brutality of the dark days of 2006-2007, when Sunni and Shiite militias carried out retaliatory attacks against each other in a cycle of violence that left the country awash in blood. However the latest attacks, some of which hit markets and crowded bus stops during the morning rush hour, have heightened fears that the country could be turning back down the path toward civil war.

The renewed violence in both Shiite and Sunni areas since late last month has fuelled concerns of a return to sectarian warfare. Since last Wednesday alone, at least 224 people have been killed.

 

The invasion of Iraq that has cost so many lives on all sides of the conflict, does not appear to have solved the issues that were around when Saddam ruled the country and Iraq now appears to be on the brink of civil war. The US and we British have paid a high price in the numbers of troops that have died in the name of freeing Iraq from the tyranny of Saddam, it appears that these men and women have paid the ultimate price and what for, in my opinion those lives have been sacrificed for nothing!.  No doubt if it escalates we shall be sending them back in again.

[Davy51]

I can only say what a waste of lives & resources  the Iraqi conflict has been & all to see who has the power over the oil wells. I know an Iraqi who had to flee for his life in the days of Saddam which  was the only choice for people Saddam considered to be his opponents but at least he delivered order & the fruits of prosperity.Amazing really that a regime that was put in place by & for the purposes of the western powers  should be punished so severely & abandoned into desolation by those powers.

[observer]

As I've said before; better the devil you know; for all his infamy Saddam provided a secular stability to Iraq and a counter-balance to Iranian Islamic extremism. Bush and Bliar, are not only guilty imo of causing all the subsequent death and destruction, but of politically destabilising the Region generally, thus making them incompetent and myopic politicians. What we said at the time, is now happening, the Country has divided into three main areas, a reasonably stable Kurdish area in the north, where the oil wells are now busy supplying the West, a partially stable area in the south around Basra, again with oil assets. The central area around Bagdad (no oil), is now riven with sectarian strife (Sunni V Shia). This is what happens when Western democracies try to impose their ideas of freedom and democracy on such situations, and has clearly proved to a total waste of life.

[algy]

I agree with what you have stated obs apart from one point, that is where you say that Basra is stable, the latest bombing that has taken place killing up to 80 people is in Bazra, making it 'unstable' and spreading the unrest.

[observer]

I said "partially stable" Alg; a relative concept anyway, given the death and destruction thanks to sectarianism derived from a middle ages mind set.

[algy]

I said "partially stable" Alg; a relative concept anyway, given the death and destruction thanks to sectarianism derived from a middle ages mind set.

You did obs and as you say 'a middle age mind set', let's face it it took Britain a long time to leave the stone age behind and judging by the behaviour of many of our citizens some never made it!.

[Lt Kije]

It was never about freeing the people and all about the oil.

[Freeborn John]

It was never about freeing the people and all about the oil.

Agreed. Or rather, all about the currency that oil is traded in, that pesky Saddam was leading a move towards Euros instead of Dollars, this would have hurt the US economy badly.

That was the end of him then.

[Lt Kije]

Completely agree FJ

 

I said t myself a while ago

[observer]

Was it worth it in Afghanistan?  Over 10 years of fighting and over 400 British soldiers killed, plus a lot more maimed for life; and nothings really altered. And if proof were needed; we're now offering asylum to over 600 Afghan interpreters and their families, to join the rest of humanity in the UK; on the basis that life in Afghanistan would be too risky for them.

[Lt Kije]

The trouble with Afghanistan is we took are eye off the ball, we should have finished the Taliban the first time. 

[observer]

What exactly does "the first time" mean? We've been trying to "finish them off" for the last decade.

[Peter T]

The trouble with Afghanistan is we took are eye off the ball, we should have finished the Taliban the first time. 

 

HOW many countries have tried and failed?

[Lt Kije]

We took troops to to fight in Iraq, we should have finished the job, we let them escape, and re group.

[Bazj]

Kije; the whole might of the Russian army in its heyday, with no worries about collateral damage and upsetting the locals could not defeat the Talibannies...... we had no chance

[Davy51]

Apparently Russia's main problem in their war in Afghanistan was that most of  its troops were conscripts  from  the parts of Russia that were Muslim so they had no stomach to fight their Muslim brethren. 

[Freeborn John]

I suspect that the Afghan conflict was set up to drain the poison out of Pakistan next door, that's where the abscess is... 

[observer]

Kije, you really must bone up on your current and recent history.  There were few "terrorists" in Iraq prior to the invasion, if we discount Saddam, who made sure he was the only one! Al Queda were spread throughout the M/East, but had a home in Pakistan, and were setting up training camps in Afghanistan. Bin Laden was spotted there by the CIA, and Sherriff Bush sent a posse of special forces after him - but he got away(back to Pakistan as it turned out!).  Bush and his poodle Bliar, in their "war on terror", decided that they wouldn't allow a "safe haven" in Afghanistan for "terrorists", so decided to eliminate the Taliban and set up a democracy. It's only recently that the CIA turned their attention to the core of the abscess, by locating and eliminating (using Navy Seals) Bin Laden; and have since been locating and eliminating Al Queda commanders, using drones; a policy that could have been employed from the beginning saving thousands of lives. It was a futile strategy from the beginning, removing a secular dictator in Iraq and creating political anarchy now filled by sectarian strife; attempting to remove the Taliban, who had established some sense of stable Government in Afghanistan, in place of tribal warfare - and will do so again, as soon as we retreat from there.

[algy]

Oh 'My God! obs your going to set El Tee and Nick going on about drones again.

[Robbo]

Oh 'My God! obs your going to set El Tee and Nick going on about drones again.

Perhaps they should have used them in Woolwich

[Bazj]

Bin Laden escaped on a Stealth Donkey......

[Lt Kije]

Baz, the CIA amongst others were arming the the Afghans at the time, I think the Taliban came about after the Russians, the Russians were fighting the Mujahideen.

[observer]

The CIA were supporting the Mujahideen, cos they were fighting the Soviets (cold war proxy wars); and Bin Laden was one of their recruits; they then morphed into the Taliban.

[Lt Kije]

Bin Laden and the Taliban are different entities, Mullah Omar heads the Taliban. Keep up Obs

[observer]

Doh, think I knew that.