algy Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I shall stop 'messing about' and attempt to reply sensibly. fugs, in answer to your above question, no it is not acceptable that innocent people die or are maimed in any attack by drone or conventional method but unfotunately it has always been so, we bombed targets in Germany that took out innocent civilians and I'm not referring to the saturation bombing of their cities by Harris & Co. or by dropping atomic bombs on Japan, if these terrible war crimes (in my view) had not taken place the outcome of WWII would have been totally different. Instead of us going around in circles which is why I tried to make a point of by changing to my present avatar, why not come up with a sensible and practical alternative to using drones to take out these terrorists because negotiating with them is not an option. So Mr Fugtifino and the other supporters of the anti-drone campaign, offer up your solution to the problem, please!. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Don't always see eye to eye with Yasmin Alibhai Brown, but she pretty much sums up what I think about all of this: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/behind-the-use-of-drones-is-a-complacent-belief-that-murdering-muslims-is-always-justifiable-8591521.html And I know I keep banging on about the low hit rates, but I do have to ask: is it acceptable to all the droners here that for approximately every known terrorist killed by these things, 49 innocent people die, and countless others are maimed? When are you enlisting Obs? Another excellent link fugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Wolfie instead of point scoring why don't you explain your solution to the problem as I suggested you do so in my last reply or are you simply 'stirring the pot', because as usual on this section the topic has stagnated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 . I only come up here to stir the pot so to speak, but don't tell em' will you. Now why should I explain anything to someone who admits to the above. or this "I shall stop 'messing about'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I think that one of the main points about drones & any other remote weapons is that anyone can strike with a lot more venom when there is a chance your opponent can't hit you back. It is really nothing more than human nature ,just like Billy & Tommy arguing in the school playground ,Billy decides he wants to hit Tommy then realises Tommy might hit him back so he doesn't bother ,which also highlights the power of a strong deterrent . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Now why should I explain anything to someone who admits to the above. or this "I shall stop 'messing about'" And you never stir anything up then Wolfie!, it appears to me that you sit on the sidelines just waiting for the opportunity to use your spoon. OK, then explain it to the others then, or perhaps you haven't the ability to do so!. (not name calling only what I perceive). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 OK Algy What is a terrorist? A person who use terror in the pursuit of political aims ? So doe the use of drones make us terrorists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 No, deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 And you never stir anything up then Wolfie!, Algy, it appears that you accuse wolfie of one thing and then brag about how you do the exact same thing. Are you obsessed? I really think you should concentrate on your own opinions. If your attempts at trying to 'out smart' wolfie and PJ recently are anything to go by then maybe you shouldn't venture into the more serious sections.(only what I perceive) 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 algy: no it is not acceptable that innocent people die or are maimed in any attack by drone or conventional method but unfotunately it has always been so So, it’s not acceptable but you support it anyway: no contradiction there then. we bombed targets in Germany that took out innocent civilians and I'm not referring to the saturation bombing of their cities by Harris & Co. or by dropping atomic bombs on Japan, Are you seriously comparing WWII with Afghanistan? And, what were you referring to, btw? Instead of us going around in circles which is why I tried to make a point of by changing to my present avatar I love your new avatar, it looks like a demented teddy bear desperate for the loo. to take out these terrorists because negotiating with them is not an option Wasn’t the same thing said with regard to the IRA? So Mr Fugtifino and the other supporters of the anti-drone campaign, offer up your solution to the problem, please That faux politeness worries me algy, please desist. I’m not a soldier, military strategist or a politician, but I can spot an injustice when I see one. Remember that idea of winning the battle by winning hearts and minds? Well, that goes out the window with this and instead the strikes are doing the work of radicals by turning the general population against the West. Be interesting to see if you're such an entusiastic supporter if these things ever start coming our way: http://dronewarsuk.wordpress.com/6-who-has-drones/ Have fun stirring that pot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Oh, and hahaha @ Robbo's post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 I think that one of the main points about drones & any other remote weapons is that anyone can strike with a lot more venom when there is a chance your opponent can't hit you back. It is really nothing more than human nature ,just like Billy & Tommy arguing in the school playground ,Billy decides he wants to hit Tommy then realises Tommy might hit him back so he doesn't bother ,which also highlights the power of a strong deterrent . Interesting point Davy, can I take it that you now believe terrorists will stop 'hitting back?' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 No - it's a permanent state of "terror" that we now have to live in; so as with pest control, you have to employ the most efficient means of location and elimination, whilst avoiding being stung. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Lt. No!. Robbo, So if you perceive this forums National/general Issue section as serious you are a very deluded person, do you honestly think that amature politician's and strategists are going to solve national/world problems, it's a forum for goodness sake - take a reality check, the forum is to discuss any topic and by it's very nature individuals will very rarely agree, however the one thing I cannot stand is when either individually or collectively people attempt to force their opinions on others, have an opinion but for goodness sake don't 'bully' it on someone, and before you reply implying that you don't bully me, theres more chance of seeing pigs fly than that happening!. As far as discussing anything on this forum with you, I would be wasting my time, you appear to hide behind others then nip out for a 'Well done so and so, I love your post!". Considering you joined May 2005 and have 396 posts, including 28 items, not a great contribution is it. fugs, I,m not going to reply line by line to your reply. re my - it would take too long, suffice to say that WWII did not start as such as I'm sure you are aware it was preempted In 1938 when the Nazis invaded Austria and on 15th March 1939 they invaded Czechoslovakia, after Germany invaded Poland that was the final pull of the trigger starting a war on the 1st of September 1939 at this point it was not called WWII. The point I am making is that any conflict may develop into WWIII. Regarding the IRA, we have not heard the last from them, believe me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Suggest you look up terrorist in a dictionary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Algy, do the drones terrorise and kill civilians ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Suggest you look up terrorist in a dictionary Why?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Algy, do the drones terrorise and kill civilians ? How would I know, thankfully I have never seen one let alone been attacked by one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 No - it's a permanent state of "terror" that we now have to live in; so as with pest control, you have to employ the most efficient means of location and elimination, whilst avoiding being stung. Unfortunately as any pest control officer will tell you "When it comes to pest control, the most effective way to get rid of mice, rats, pigeons, bed bugs and other common pests is to use chemicals. " so I take it you have no objection to chemical warfare also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primedius Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Difficult one this, having read the whole thread wolfie and fugs seem to have come up with the best arguments, but the Yanks will do what they want with or without our help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Whatever is most surgical and efficient in any given circumstances Wolfie - alas this isn't a game, it's war; and the objective of war is to win. If you really want to start upstream on prevention, I'd suggest closing down all faith schools and pursuing a secular education system, which may help to reduce recruitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 however the one thing I cannot stand is when either individually or collectively people attempt to force their opinions on others, have an opinion but for goodness sake don't 'bully' it on someone, . Considering the discussion was going fine until you started the name calling and stating that you were only on the thread to 'mix' it and 'stir the pot' that's a bit rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Considering the discussion was going fine until you started the name calling and stating that you were only on the thread to 'mix' it and 'stir the pot' that's a bit rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 On Schools Obs, I agree with you, We should not have any faith schools. But on Drones no, the way we use them they are not as presise as people think, hense all the civillion casulties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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