Margaret Thatcher is dead

[Nick Tessla]

Yes Maggie divided the country - between the Right and the Wrong!

 

 

Gosh - with that attitude to those who disagree with you, no wonder you admired her!!  

[Peter T]

Baz, you left one out. Start building council houses to replace those that people were fortunate to buy.

 

Fully agree with the previous 4 posts.

[wolfie]

The Labour Party initially proposed the idea of the right of tenants to own the house they live in, in its manifesto for the 1959 General Election which it subsequently lost. As for starting to build houses to replace those that had been sold, it never happened and that's why there are now hardly any left.

[observer]

There were issues to be addressed, mainly "the British disease" of restrictive TU practises etc and inefficient industries; unfortunately the baby was thrown out with the bath water in her basic class warfare approach to solving them. At the same time as she was destroying British industry, the Germans were conducting an exercise of modernising their manufacturing base, but in a consensual manner, with the involvement and co-operation of Gov, employers and trade unions; the Germans still have their manufacturing base and a relatively successful economy. Instead, we got wholesale destruction of anything considered "socialist" in origin, and with no construction of anything to replace it, as the free market by it's very nature is anarchic, there was nothing in her mind to construct.  Her's was a philosophy of every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost; as she said "there is no such thing as society" and she ruthlessly went out of her way to make it so. And yes, she is primarily responsible, as her only positive trait - the triumph of her will over the political and civil service wimps that surrounded her - ensured it was done. Ironically, it was those very political wimps that surrounded her, that politically assassinated her in the end, where collective opposition had failed - and those same wimps will be there, crying crocodile tears at her funeral.

[Horace]

A bit laughable, really, all the judgements being passed here. Love or hate her, she achieved more in her life than any of us are likely to achieve in ours.

And how can a grocer's daughter be accused of starting a class war?

[Nick Tessla]

And how can a grocer's daughter be accused of starting a class war?

 

 

Only a grocer's daughter - her and dame Shirley Porter

 

Class consciousness is one thing that is open to anyone - regardless of background, social status or financial position - it is Ronnie Corbett's working class bloke, in that famous sketch on class (middle class Ronnie Barker, upper class John Cleese) who says "I know my place"

 

 

She was only a grocers daughter  but * she was one who was doing very well thank you .

 

As has been demonstrated - Tories are not above pulling up the ladder they themselves have climbed up.

 

 

 

 

* cue for music hall type jokes

[observer]

Horace - so did Hitler!

[Nick Tessla]

Does anyone know if Warrington Council are planning to have the union flag * at half mast on the day of the funeral?

 

 

 

 

* By which I mean the national flag - not the Unison one !

[observer]

Perhaps the EU one would be appropriately inappropriate?!

[Lt Kije]

Why would anyone want to put the flag at half mast ?

[asperity]

Amongst the many myths about Maggie - that she stopped school milk - untrue, Wilson had already done that for all but 5 to 7 year olds. That she killed off all the mining jobs - when she came to power half of the mining jobs that had existed after the war had already gone and mining was already in decline because it was cheaper to import foreign coal (and the irony is that the mining industry, if it hadn't been closed down then, it would certainly be closed down now by EU regulations causing the shutting down of our coal fired power stations). She didn't kill off heavy industry, she put it out of its misery. I'm sure that if she had been PM between 1997 and 2010 the banking crisis wouldn't have happened. It wasn't caused by her policies but by international regulations and the mismanagement of the economy by Prudence Brown and his useless FSA. The list goes on of the half truths. There is a mindset amongst certain people in this country, and certainly evident on this forum, that whatever is wrong with this country is down to her. It couldn't be further than the truth.

[Lt Kije]

Buy destroying our Manufacturing base, The UK became reliant on the city, which grew in power, she started the whole slide

[Bazj]

Very true....Margaret Thatcher did NOT close the coal mines.

 

It was the NCB that decided to close most of the deep pits because they had been losing money since nationalisation after the Second World War - and they had been in decline for much longer than that. And that is why none have been reopened since - even under Labour - they are simply not profitable.

 

What Mrs Thatcher DID do was refuse to continue pouring millions of pounds of taxpayers money down the drain in subsidies to keep them open.

 

Labour supporters will always see the miners strike through rose tinted glasses. Let's not forget there was nothing democratic about the strike. Scargill called the miners out without a ballot. If you didn`t respond you would find your home would be trashed. But Scargill was a bit of an idiot really. Who would call a miners strike in the summer with coal stocks which would last through the winter and if he had bothered to look around him he would have seen the police preparing themselves for a prolonged dispute with new equipment and regular training.

 

What did for the miners were antiquated pits and the clean air act. People were turning to gas and oil for heating their homes and there was a greater reliance on nuclear and gas power stations. If Scargill had engaged in dialogue with Thatcher some pits would undoubtedly have been saved but as he was hell bent on bringing her down he was never going to win. Public opinion was against him and so was a determined government. People had had enough of the unions disrupting their lives and Scargill was a dinosaur.

 

The coal industry was losing billions and it just couldn`t go on. Something had to be done. Scargill got it badly wrong and a lot of the blame for what happened should be placed at his door

[observer]

Not all pits were unprofitable; and in any case, keeping folk in work, paying taxes; while N/Sea oil revenues were invested in alternative industries; would have been a lot more imaginative than using these revenues to pay them dole and later sick benefits, in destroyed communities.

[Lt Kije]

The oil revenue was used to keep taxes low. But I do agree your idea would have been better.

[Freeborn John]

Bringing hundreds of thousands of tonnes of coal from China and Columbia to feed Fiddlers Ferry power station (and rubbish it was too, compared to the British stuff the station was designed for) could probably be described as pouring money down the drain too.

[wolfie]

Very true....Margaret Thatcher did NOT close the coal mines.

What a f*****g joke.  The NCB proposed the closure of 20 pits (Under a certain evil ones orders). 174 ended up being shut down.

 

As for who first stopped school milk, well I'm sorry but:-

 

Harry Wilson milk snatcher,

Harry Wilson milk snatcher

 

Just doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

I suppose it's another myth that welfare benefits were suddenly stopped to all strikers families. Leaving young children to starve just because their fathers had the audacity to go on strike to save their jobs.

 

 

.

[Peter T]

The Labour Party initially proposed the idea of the right of tenants to own the house they live in, in its manifesto for the 1959 General Election which it subsequently lost. As for starting to build houses to replace those that had been sold, it never happened and that's why there are now hardly any left.

 

The Labour Party initially proposed the idea of the right of tenants to own the house they live in, in its manifesto for the 1959 General Election which it subsequently lost. As for starting to build houses to replace those that had been sold, it never happened and that's why there are now hardly any left.

That is why it should have been on Baz's list.

[Peter T]

Buy destroying our Manufacturing base, The UK became reliant on the city, which grew in power, she started the whole slide

 

Buy destroying our Manufacturing base, The UK became reliant on the city, which grew in power, she started the whole slide

I thought most of that was down to Companies moving manufacturing overseas because it was cheaper and less union problems?

[harry hayes]

Coming in late.  History will judge her as one of our finest prime ministers.   She did exactly what the country needed at the time, whereas the labour PMs and Ted Heath, wouldn't rise to the challenge the blackmailing unions posed..

 

Just one of her many achievements.  No-one gets re-elected if they are half as bad as her critics say.

 

Happy days

[Cleopatra]

Well said Harry lad!

[Freeborn John]

Npower just sent me a breakdown of the sources my electricity comes from.

Coal, of which this country produces not a bucket any more, provides a full 29% of my electricity, and surprisingly, nuclear produces a mere 2%.

The break from horrid, dirty, environmentally unfriendly coal which was trumpeted in order to justify the extermination of the British mining industry back in the 80's is certainly taking its time.

[algy]

Harry said it exactly as it happened!. I was a shop steward for a short time back in 1967, not for long as I resigned, there was no common sense practiced by my union the AEU, the unions were totally corrupt and run by the militants, the moderates of which I was one were there own worst enemies who neglected to attend union meetings other than to pay their dues, consequently any voting for action of any kind whether it was for working to rule, overtime bans or strikes were carried unanimously by the militants at the meetings. Apathy brought this country to it's knees not Magararet Thatcher. Wages were rising too quickly in the late 60's and 70's resulting in British businesses becoming uncompetitive with other countries causing them to either close down or move abroad where labour costs were much cheaper. Sorry, in my view Maggie has been the 'whipping girl' for the unions lack of control of their members.

[observer]

Depends of course who writes the history Harry. To the majority of the great unwashed north of Watford Gap, she will be remembered with hatred, not that that would have worried Margaret, who had the unique ability to be re-energised by the hatred of others, so frankly wouldn't care less. The motivation behind pit closures was simply vengeance, they never forgave the NUM for their defeat of Ted Heath, and clearly launched a policy of unemployment creation, funded by N/sea oil revenues, in order to neuter the trade unions. This was purely a  policy of destruction of our industrial base, from which we've never really recovered; and whilst modernisation was required, we need to look at Germany to see how it could have been done in a more contructive manner. As for the rest of her legacy, we just need to look around us today, to see the continuation of unemployment and benefit dependency and utter despair in whole communities; the lack of social housing, reliance on the finance and service sector and on imports. Far from putting the "Great" back into Britain, which appears to have been her driving ambition, she set us on the road to selfishness and greed, the "me now" society (perhaps society is the wrong word); that we can observe today.

[wolfie]

 No-one gets re-elected if they are half as bad as her critics say.

 

Well Tony Bliar did and some may say you don't get stabbed in the back by your own party if you're half as bad as your critics say.