How involved should we get?

[observer]

.... and so they fled, leaving their boots in the desert, pursued by Israeli tanks! 

[Lt Kije]

Obs, As far as Iraq goes, We got the oil, And thats what it was all about

[observer]

Errm, who's "we"?  Think US companies like Haliburton cleaned up the spoils, and now it's socially divided three ways. So what about the benefits of Afghanistan Kije?

[algy]

Errm, who's "we"?  Think US companies like Haliburton cleaned up the spoils, and now it's socially divided three ways. So what about the benefits of Afghanistan Kije?

poppy fields!.

[Davy51]

Afghanistan is supposed to be very rich in lithium which is needed for the latest generation of batteries .

[Lt Kije]

There you go Obs, thanks Dave

[observer]

Oh?!   and presumably Bush knew this, when he sent special forces in, to capture Bin Ladin?  and rather than mission creep, and the Taliban opposition; the military build up that sucked us into it, was really about "lithium"?  and when we've left, making every effort not to make it look like a defeat, and the Taliban take over or the tribalism returns, they'll get into mining lithium for us, rather than opium?!  "Cluching at straws" methinks.

[Lt Kije]

All they need is a stable platform, or a West friendly regime

[observer]

... and have we achieved that?  With the Afghan Army and Police well and truly penetrated by the Taliban, a Gov wreaking of corruption and religious and cultural pre-disposition to wallow in the 7th century; perhaps you'll expound on how this "stable platform" or this "West friendly" scenario will come about?!

[Lt Kije]

Not yet, work in progress, As you know Obs

[observer]

"work in progress" my a**s - we got our fingers burnt, and the best we can expect is a deal the Taliban will accept.

[Lt Kije]

Is it?, you obviously have contacts and information the rest of us have not, care to share?

[observer]

No, I just listen to the assessments of those that have!

[Lt Kije]

So do I. Funny that. So your a glass half full guy!!!

[Davy51]

Wasn't it the new breed of lithium batteries that were causing problems on the Dreamliner planes that were grounded a couple of weeks ago ? ....terrorist batteries ! We will also probably need lithium for the HS2. ,somewhere in its design .

[observer]

I'm sure there will be all sorts of economic reasons for "resource wars" (incl water) in the future; which is why some of us advocate moving towards self sufficiency now.

[Lt Kije]

So Obs where are we going to get our rare earth elements, many of which are situated in China, and in Africa. The UK has little or non of these rare commodities.

 

So your self sufficiently won't go very far, so those that are advocating self sufientcy have no real idea where most of the things we need come from, and are not living in the real world.

[Cleopatra]

Simple answer Kije. Invade those countries and help yorselves - as per.

[observer]

Any items that can't be found locally can be stockpiled from imports, before things kick off.  Rather than sleep walking into crisis in the future - we should be preparing now - alas a big ask of most folk, myopia rules.

[Lt Kije]

So how big are the stores of rare earth elements in the UK Obs.

 

Cleo, I am not saying I agree with it, but as you say that's the way it is.

[observer]

Well, don't we all carry lithium around in our cell phones, lap tops etc?  Then it gets thrown away and exported to China & Africa?

[algy]

Just thought you'd like to know!

 

Googled Information.

 

Some interesting facts regarding where lithium is produced, after viewing the following information I dont believe that lithium deposits in Afghanistan are that important to world supply!.

 

Major lithium producing countries are the United States, Russia, Australia, Argentina and China. Several of these countries produced lithium oxide from raw materials such as spodumene, petalite and lepidolite. Chile and Bolivia are just two South Amarican countries who are also sitting on large deposits of lithium.

 

World consumption of lithium had increased from less than 100 tonnes of lithium carbonate equivalent per annum in the early 1900 s to more than 70,000 tonnes per annum one hundred years later.

1 The main uses of lithium metal, lithium carbonate, lithium hydroxide, lithium bromide and more complex compounds are currently:
(a) In ceramic glasses to improve resistance to extreme temperature changes; to lower process melting points, and as a glazing agent, in
ceramic (frits) and glass manufacturing;
© to lower the melting point of the cryolite bath in primary aluminium production;
(d) as a catalyst in the production of synthetic rubber, plastics and pharmaceutical products;
(e) as a reduction agent in the synthesis of many organic compounds;
(f) in specialty lubricants and greases used for working in extreme temperature and change conditions;
(g) in the production of both primary and secondary batteries; and
(h) in air conditioning and dehumidification systems.

Another use, not yet widespread, is the use of aluminium – lithium alloys in aircraft production while the addition of lithium carbonate to cement as a way of preventing concrete cancer has emerging appeal. One recent estimate of the percentages of uses appears in Fig. 1.
During the past decade, the production (and consumption) of lithium has been increasing at an average of about 3% per annum.

Some estimates for the period between 1984 and 2003 (British Geological Survey, 2005, p. 154), stated in terms of lithium carbonate, appear in Fig. 2. After sluggish growth of just over 1% per annum between 1984 and 1993, production surged between 1994 and 1997 in response to applications such as the widespread use of lithium in the production of monochromatic computer monitors. Although production fell back in 1998 in the wake of the Asian economic crisis, there has been significant growth again since 2001. Key to the market expansion between 2001 and 2004 has been the increase in use of lithium in rechargeable batteries and the demand growth from China.
 

[Cleopatra]

I never knew concrete could get cancer....

[algy]

I never knew concrete could get cancer....

Strictly speaking it is not cancer as we recognise it, just a term that is used by the building industry usually associated with concrete 'blowing' due to steel reinforcing bars not having been subject to corrosion prior to being submerged in conctrete, if the oxidization has not been started before burying in concrete after a period the bars start to corrode inside the concrete and then expand resulting in the concrete splitting or blowing as it is called.Precast reinforced bridges and buildings manufactured in the 50's and 60's suffered from this condition.

[asperity]

Apparently France buys 80% of the uranium they use in their nuclear power stations from Niger, and they are worried about Niger becoming surrounded by countries with hostile Islamic Fundamentalist rulers. And, as we are becoming more and more reliant on electricity we buy from France, and we buy oil from Nigeria, our interests are served by supporting the French.