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Manchester Road Accident now - more chaos

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Just had a phone call from my other half to say there has been a two vehicle crash on Manchester Road as a car has seemingly pulled out on another one (not far from Paddington House) heading in the Wooston direction.

 

Traffic heading out of town towards Manchester Road is pretty much at a standstill at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

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The whole towns traffic system has been on the brink of a nervous breakdown all week, two hours to get off Alban retail park yesterday afternoon for example, and Lovely Lane was bumper to bumper from Winwick Rd to Crossfields roundabout an hour ago, in neither case was there an accident in sight...

The powers that be should be out there taking the opportunity to study these bottlenecks, as traffic increases in future it's going to be like this all the time.

In not too many years the 20mph eejit will be having the last laugh!

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Its because there are too many people using cars on a saturated network tha WBC is taking steps to give people better choices to walk, cycle and bus. Lower speed limits are an important aspect of this. A side effect is that it also makes our residential streets better pub

ic places. Other towns achieve far higher ratios of people movements to cars, so there s plenty of room for improvements.

 

If ypu want to get off Alban retail park quickly then either cycle there or park and walk.

 

Rod

 

 

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Its because there are too many people using cars on a saturated network tha WBC is taking steps to give people better choices to walk, cycle and bus. Lower speed limits are an important aspect of this. A side effect is that it also makes our residential streets better pub ic places. Other towns achieve far higher ratios of people movements to cars, so there s plenty of room for improvements. If ypu want to get off Alban retail park quickly then either cycle there or park and walk. Rod

Good idea. I'll park in Widnes and walk to the shops.

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I've noticed over the last few weeks, that it's like "peak hour" all the time now, nose to tail at less than 5mph. So perhaps Rod's 20mph is something we should demand; after all, it's faster than 5mph!

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Its because there are too many people using cars on a saturated network tha WBC is taking steps to give people better choices to walk, cycle and bus. Lower speed limits are an important aspect of this. A side effect is that it also makes our residential streets better pub ic places. Other towns achieve far higher ratios of people movements to cars, so there s plenty of room for improvements. If ypu want to get off Alban retail park quickly then either cycle there or park and walk. Rod

 

Both REALLY practical suggestions if you've bought any of the goods they actually sell on the Alban Retail Park Rod!!!

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Its because there are too many people using cars on a saturated network tha WBC is taking steps to give people better choices to walk, cycle and bus. Lower speed limits are an important aspect of this. A side effect is that it also makes our residential streets better pub ic places. Other towns achieve far higher ratios of people movements to cars, so there s plenty of room for improvements. If ypu want to get off Alban retail park quickly then either cycle there or park and walk. Rod

Rodk, are you in politics either local or national, if not then you should be as your post is a typical politicians statement to a problem!! :roll:

I dont usually applaud scarcasm, but well done, Wolfieclap-animated-animation-clap-smiley-emot

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Wolfie

 

Try Athlone Rd. It's just a little bit nearer than Widnes.

 

Inky Pete,

 

There's not much at Alban Retail Park that cannot be either transported by pocket, bike, or be delivered or isn't available elsewhere.

 

Algy

 

The thing about politicians is that society calls on them to implement changes and come up with practical solutions.

 

Rather than whinging about there being too much traffic I have suggested reducing the traffic as a solution by providing alternatives to the use of private motor cars for a journey. I am not attacking your decision to use a car, but defending your right to have alternatives. If that gives you a problem then so be it.

 

Rod

 

 

 

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Home delivery adds to the cost.

A washing machine, spin dryer, tv on a bike - get real..  Now the shed in town has closed there is little choice left in Warrington to buy these items.

And before you comment back Rod I am a cyclist and I do walk but don't think I could carry these items.

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Fair point about delivery rod but when your fridge freezer goes pop and you need one in a hurry having to wait for a week and pay for the delivery when you can go and get one "off the shelf" and transport it yourself may be a bit annoying. True you could get a hand cart and walk it there and then back again but one point i will make is that I pay a heck of a lot of road tax and insurance for my car and motorbike so having them parked outsde the house wasting money is a rather pointless thing.

 

I am still waiting for you to start the legislation for people who do ride pedal cycles to carry insurance and pay a nominal road tax. Plus make it a mandatory £80 fine for any who do not comply with the current laws on lighting and such. In fact most of the people I do see riding pedal cycles do not even have brakes let alone lights making walking my dog around sankey valley a very perilous experience even in daylight. when it is dark mornings like now I wear a high viz jacket and carry a torch and even then have had a few close encounters with cyclists who I have not seen because they have no lights and wear dark clothing. They just appear out of the gloom like ninjas and with a similar effect when they zoom past. To say they are the exception rather than the rule would be wrong as things have not changed in the six or seven years I have walked my dog.

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Algy The thing about politicians is that society calls on them to implement changes and come up with practical solutions.

 

Rod with respect, if you cannot comply with the above then get out of political arena!

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Sid

 

I never suggested using a bike to carry home a fridge freezer. But there are many people who go to ARP simply to bring back something that is very carryable. For them they do have a choice and all I am saying is that providing them with alterantives to the car will reduce the number of cars.

 

We all have choices about what we buy, from where and how we get it home. Those who use cars and don't want to choose other forms of transport should be a little more accomodating to people who are suggesting ways to reduce car use. These are not attacks on your personal freedom, but merely trying to make an overloaded transport system a little better and give everyone a little more choice.

 

Imagine that you are going out for a meal to your local restaurant. You enjoy steak and chips. In fact you are intending to have steak and chips. You really, really do enjoy steak and chips, even though it is expensive. You also know that sometimes they run out of steak and have no alternatives. But when you sit down for the meal the waiter says that there is a new menu. As well as steak and chips you can have fish and chips or a vegetarian dish. You can respond with either :-

 

 

"That's great. I'm pleased to hear that there are now more choice. I guess that means that its more likely that the steak won't run out. But I would like my usual steak and chiips please"

 

or

 

"But I don't like fish, and what's wrong with steak. Why are you foisting vegetarian meals on me when I really prefer steak. Are you the people responsible for the depletion of the fish stocks. I bet you are buying your fish from Spanish trawlermen fishing in Bristish waters. And, hey, if I eat here do I have to wear sandals and grow a beard to come in. Whose the manager. I demand to know what ***** thinks I can exist on a nut loaf for a meal. In fact I have decided that I am no longer going to eat here. I'm off to Widnes!"

 

 

 

On a more practical note, I think you will find that most cyclists already have 3rd party liabiilty when riding a bike through their house insurance. I also have a separate insurance policy. My VED (Road tax was abolished many years ago) is £0 per annum so it would be rather unrealistic to ask me to pay a "nominal" CED (Cycle Excise Duty) on each cycle I own.

 

I agree entirely with the fact that cyclists should have lights and should not cycle on pavements. Every organisation that I am involved with also supports this. However, to put that in perspective, on a personal level, I see far more cars parking and driving on pavements than I do cyclists riding on pavements. Of course in some places pavements are dual use as well for pedestrians and cyclists. Not my preference but cycling on such is perfectly legal.

 

Have a good Christmas everybody.

 

Rod

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But there are many people who go to ARP simply to bring back something that is very carryable. For them they do have a choice and all I am saying is that providing them with alterantives to the car will reduce the number of cars.

...."Come on kids, get your bikes out.... and you wife..... we are off to Alban Retail Park to buy a new computer. I'll carry the monitor, wife; you carry the base and the kids can carry the prinyter, the mouse and keyboard.".... "Never mind that it is p^^*ing it down, I'm sure the warranty will cover rain damage whilst carrying it home on a bike"

 

"but dad.... what about the new TV?"

 

"Don't get smart with me lad......"

 

Get real Rod for heavens sake.... the problem isn't that there are too many cars; the problem is that the incompetants at the council has not put ANY decent investment into the towns road structure for decades which is forcing customers to start to look elsewhere to places where there is easy access; Widnes and the Trafford Centre being just two places.

 

Appeasing crazy schemes like your 20 limits will do nothing to help the problem because the problem is still there and always will be until they increase the capacity of the road networks. Expecting everyone to use bikes to go shopping is a neanderthal idea.

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Due to the demise of the corner shop, shopping has to be done with a car. It is not practical to carry up to a dozen carrier bags on a bike, bus or even walking several miles. :cry::roll: :roll:

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Rod, in order to make your steak and chips analogy at all applicable you'd have to imagine a restaurant which forced EVERYONE who EVER wanted to order steak and chips to pay a HUGE annual membership fee - just for the privilege of being able to order off the menu with steak on it. You'd further have to imagine the steak getting smaller, tougher, less well prepared and cooked, and MUCH more expensive every year. And whenever you complained about the quality, value, or price of the steak you'd get sneered at and abused by a sandle-wearing vegetarian head waiter - who claims the moral high ground because he "never eats steak" (despite the fact that delivery vans full of the stuff are back and forth to his front door on a daily basis!).

 

How long do you think such a restaurant would stay in business in the real world?

 

Oh, and the fish and chips is free all day every day - paid for by those who are forced pay the membership to order the steak.

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The wife and I did the weekly shop today and brought back 7 bags of shopping that completely filled the boot of the car. This is the way life is these days for most people Rod, the car is the only logical and practical option. Now I realise that that I meant to pickup a light bulb so need to make another trip. It’s peeing down and has been all day so even though I could do this on a bike, the preferred option will again be the car. 
 
The arguments over congestion have two obvious solutions i.e. you either improve the road infrastructure or deter everyone from using cars. Clearly people want their cars for the convenience and freedom of movement it affords them, so if this is what people actually want, do you really think it’s you duty to try and change things? 
 
Here’s a another slightly more realistic Steak and Chips analogy for you Rod!
Imagine that you are going out for a meal to your local restaurant. You enjoy steak and chips. In fact you are intending to have steak and chips. You really, really do enjoy steak and chips, but the owner says sorry sir, but the restaurant is so congested that all our seats are taken. 
 
On the way out, the waiter comments that the business could meet everyone’s needs if it expanded into the adjacent property but there was a slight issue with this as the proprietor and his business colleagues were all vegetarian.
 
However the owner has other ideas and decides to reduce portion sizes by 33% while telling people it's healthier for them. He reinforces his argument by saying that increasing capacity would only lead to more people eating steak.
 
Both options would certainly reduce the overcrowding but while one leaves everyone satisfied, the other satisfies mainly one individual.

 

Bill :)

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I'd be interested in just how road capacity can be increased?  Suppose they could be widened, the buildings either side allowing of course. Take out the cycle lanes and the wasted areas of white cross hatching. But after all that what?

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Who knows? Maybe we all move to Mars or something. 

 

It’s a simple choice as I see it, we either look for solutions that will take us forward into the future or follow Rods lead and regress back 100 years. One thing our country’s always been good at is innovation and problem solving and I don’t see why we should allow a bunch of political numpties to try and change this. So much of what they’er doing lately seems to taking us backwards like they’ve given up trying and gone into some form of self preservation mode.Perhaps if they thought more about what we could achieve for the town and it’s people instead of just trying to meet idealistic targets then we might get somewhere.

 

I've seen Back to the Future part 2 and I didn't see many people riding bikes!

 

Bill :)

 


 

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Due to the demise of the corner shop, shopping has to be done with a car. It is not practical to carry up to a dozen carrier bags on a bike, bus or even walking several miles. :cry::roll: :roll:

 

Peter

 

That's easy. Why on earth do you want to carry 5 shopping bags. In other countries and places people shop for fresh food every couple of days. Why on earth do people want to eat 6 day old vegetables. There are shops in most of the places around Warrington. You can also get deliveries of grocery to your home from most of the supermarket chains.

 

Again, I am not saying that you MUST, merely that having the option to do these things should be there.

 

Rod

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Who knows? Maybe we all move to Mars or something. 
 
It’s a simple choice as I see it, we either look for solutions that will take us forward into the future or follow Rods lead and regress back 100 years. One thing our country’s always been good at is innovation and problem solving and I don’t see why we should allow a bunch of political numpties to try and change this. So much of what they’er doing lately seems to taking us backwards like they’ve given up trying and gone into some form of self preservation mode.Perhaps if they thought more about what we could achieve for the town and it’s people instead of just trying to meet idealistic targets then we might get somewhere.
 
I've seen Back to the Future part 2 and I didn't see many people riding bikes!
 
Bill :)
 
 

Bill

 

If you look at some of the most vibrant cities then you find that they have all learnt to make far better use of public space by taking some away from the automobile and dedicating it for cycling, pedestrians and buses.

 

Time has shown that there is NO successful model for inreasing capacity for cars by creating bigger roads without blighting the communities through which they go. I'm sorry but your "car-centric" thinking is actually so 20th Century. If you want to think "out of the box" then you also have to think "out of the car".

 

Regards

 

Rod

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Rod, in order to make your steak and chips analogy at all applicable you'd have to imagine a restaurant which forced EVERYONE who EVER wanted to order steak and chips to pay a HUGE annual membership fee - just for the privilege of being able to order off the menu with steak on it. You'd further have to imagine the steak getting smaller, tougher, less well prepared and cooked, and MUCH more expensive every year. And whenever you complained about the quality, value, or price of the steak you'd get sneered at and abused by a sandle-wearing vegetarian head waiter - who claims the moral high ground because he "never eats steak" (despite the fact that delivery vans full of the stuff are back and forth to his front door on a daily basis!).

 

How long do you think such a restaurant would stay in business in the real world?

 

Oh, and the fish and chips is free all day every day - paid for by those who are forced pay the membership to order the steak.

 

Inky

 

That's a good development of the analogy. Some of it may be true. Those insisting one eating steak every day may well feel hard done by. But they do have a choice. Remember that the upkeep of the roads comes from general taxation and is not hypothicated. Its similar to the tax on cigarettes. Can you imagine going in to a hospital and demanding preferential services on the basis that you were a smoker? But there again, maybe you can!

 

Cyclists and pedestrians pay tax as income tax, VAT, National Insurance and some pay VED and fuel duty as well. So they have just as much right to use the roads as those who are in motor vehicles. In fact so often they are the same people.

 

This idea that because you have paid a few pounds a week for VED that this entitles you to have priority to maximise the space and public investment for your vehicles is really not realistic. It simply cannot be delivered.

 

By the way. The fish tastes really good!

 

Rod

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