wahl Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 CHARGING for on-street parking and the use of CCTV to enforce bus lane offences are being considered by Town Hall chiefs at Warrington in a bid to reduce a £242,000 deficit on parking services. A draft parking strategy is to be put the borough council's executive board next week designed to make parking services operate on a "break even" basis. The strategy has been developed by an all-Party working group chaired by Cllr Linda Dirir (pictured), the executive member for highways and transportation. Parking services are currently delivered by a small "in house" team, supported by specialist parking contractor APCOA. The service has run at a loss for years - although for off-street parking, it actually achieves a surplus of £51,000. The losses are racked up by staff parking (£106,000), residents' parking zones (£129,000) and general on-street parking (£58,000) I do not really understand this article. How can losses be made for parking? What are the "budgets" ? are they real or guestimates? Is it the costn of yellow paint if so do not use so m ucha as most of the areas with yellow lines in the town centre are totally OTT. and could be removed. What is "staff parking"? How can a loss be calculated? Seems to me another scam but more information would be appreciated.. then fair enoughs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I think the issue is that parking charges are seen as one of the major causes of the decline of the High Street. I'm not convinced there's a great deal of joined up thinking going on here given the already parlous state of Warrington Town Centre. It strikes me this comparatively small deficit might be better seen as an investment in the Town Centre and they should instead maybe look to mitigate the costs of staff parking and the other costs which may be largely administrative (?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 The reason they are making a loss of the parking enforcement is because people have wised up. This the problem with a strategy that is based on punishing behaviours. The same will happen with bus lane enforcement. Money spent to enforce will outweigh the revneue raised in due course as people will wise up. Wouldnt mind also if the bus lanes in warrington were actually used by buses. One near the peace centre isnt. They get out of it as soon as they leave St Gregs. Charging on road parking will stop me nipping into town for an hour so to browse etc. Might as well go to Widnes where its free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Wouldnt mind also if the bus lanes in warrington were actually used by buses. One near the peace centre isnt. They get out of it as soon as they leave St Gregs. Adrian.... that lane is truly a farce. As you rightly say; the buses never use it and yet there have been occasions when the underworked and overpaid traffic police have sat and ticketed motorists who use it which incidentally by using this lane minimises the queue lengths at the traffic lights. Will be interesting to see if any of our councillor posters comment on this lane as it has been so for years now. They did get rid of the 20ft long bus lane on sankey way approaching town.... it was in the nearside lane and yet all the buses had to get in the outside lane to go to town... Obviously the incompetance of the highways department has been left to grow over many years to the point where they graduated to the Westbrook traffic lights, Calver road and bridge foot fiascos.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egbert Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Wahl How does a parking service make a loss? Simple. It costs more to employ the parking wardens than they collect in penalty charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey_man Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 The major part of the loss is obviously staff parking. Effectively what they want to happen is the people of Warrington pay more so that council staff don't have to. And the way they want to achieve this is to stick another nail in the town centre's coffin. Then they'll apply for a grant to promote the town centre which has all the shops that you can find in other places that don't charge you so much to park. Then when the income from rates in the town centre falls and the only shops left are those in Golden Square plus whatever pound shops eke out a living on its fringes, they can have yet another initiative which costs more than the money they won't have raised from trying to charge people to shop in Warrington. And who thought Catch 22 was a war satire? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 They need the cash, and imo any such scheme should at least be revenue neutral, but preferably a revenue earner. The problem is, they are shooting their own fox, because they havn't the powers to go after the real cause of town centre demise - the out of town retail giants. That's where the money could be levied on car parks - if they had the powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Without trawling through all the previous replies, I foresee - increase parking charges, decrease in shoppers to the town centre = drop in revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Without trawling through all the previous replies, I foresee - increase parking charges, decrease in shoppers to the town centre = drop in revenue. So speaketh gypsy Algy after looking into his crystal balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 So speaketh gypsy Algy after looking into his crystal balls. You leave my Crystal balls out of this Florence!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 PMSL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 They need the cash, and imo any such scheme should at least be revenue neutral, but preferably a revenue earner. The problem is, they are shooting their own fox, because they havn't the powers to go after the real cause of town centre demise - the out of town retail giants. That's where the money could be levied on car parks - if they had the powers. How could ANY powers enable a council to levy parking charges on private land? Town centre parking provision should be seen as a facility which ENABLES a town centre to thrive - thus generating revenue for the town. It should not be used as a cash cow which will only drive money away elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 For a start Ink, powers to CPO the land would be a start, then they could start charging for it OR just allow a local buisiness tax - sorted. Why would folk use the Town Centre, parking aside; if they can do a full shop at an out of Town S/market - it's a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Thus driving shoppers away from Warrington's out of town shopping centres to ones in other towns/cities without parking charges. Brilliant thinking Obs. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahl Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Thanks for the clarification, Egbert....How does a parking service make a loss? Simple. It costs more to employ the parking wardens than they collect in penalty charges Seems the best action is to do away with parking wardens....but would this mean irresponsible parking? Not if the yellow lines were properly allocated not the broadbrush painting job that has been done. Then if there was poor parking, there would be a case for our noble police to tow away cars a task better suited to them than their pathetic speed traps on roads that have the wrong speed limits. Takes me back to the complete farce under clr Dirir of all road traffic issues including a designated route for traffic through Warrington when a motorway is closed ( carefully forgotted useless non answers from aforesaid cllr) and the totally useless 20 limits again under cllr D. However I stray from trying to accept the usual tax tax approach from people bereft of any useful answers to parking Perhaps we need a clean sweep in Warrington of all these useless do gooders including useless traffic mismanagers who have caused obstruction throughout the area by their incompetence. A radical approach to attracting people into tyhe centre of the town would include free parking in the centre. Staff who work for the council should not need to pay for parking whatsoever as there are plenty of spaces where they could park their cars...anyway shouldn't they be using the overcharging buses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 No Asp, the revenue could be used to support T/centres - sometimes one has to think outside the box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 For a start Ink, powers to CPO the land would be a start, then they could start charging for it OR just allow a local buisiness tax - sorted. Why would folk use the Town Centre, parking aside; if they can do a full shop at an out of Town S/market - it's a no brainer. Because you can't do a "full shop" in the town centre???? There are absolutely NO retail units in the town centre big enough to house a modern supermarket, a big electrical retailer, a Halfords (or similar), a big DIY store, a big furniture store, or in fact ANY of the big retailers. And then, if you were to succeed in taxing the retail parks out of business, how do you suggest people carry all the bags from a "full shop" - or other bulky and heavy items - across the town centre and up the stairs of a multi-storey car park? A local business tax would merely put Warrington (with it's pathetic town centre council parking provision) in direct competition with neighbouring authorities to offer the most attractive deals to developers, and lead to out of town developments springing up actually out of town - just over the borders. Shopping habits have CHANGED. You can't turn back the clock with heavy handed regulations and taxes. There are far more Warrington jobs in retail outside of Warrington town centre than within it - do you want to lose all of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 No Asp, the revenue could be used to support T/centres - sometimes one has to think outside the box! And what revenue would that be Obs, given that the shoppers will have gone to other out of town supermarkets without parking charges? OBviously a lose/lose situation. Sometimes one has to think :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Big assumption Asp; that everyone will be traveling the local M/ways to shop. Ink, there's plenty of derilict land available in the areas vacated by retail, that have moved into G/Square, but unfortunately the big retailers seem to prefer out of Town sites and have enough pull with the politicians to keep it that way. Local Authorities are already "in competition" with each other, and played off against each other by developers. "Shopping habits" are a response to one's enviroment and costs; with cheap out of Town retail, any idea that you can revitalise T/centres is a non-starter; so this nonesense over car park charges is merely an arguement over a coffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 It's a fact that people are quite happy to travel several miles to shop at the Trafford Center for example. My main concern is your apparent wish for the Government (both central and local) to bleed even more money from us in an attempt to change our style of living. Why don't they (and you) just butt out and leave us alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Since when has Gov not sought to control our lifestyles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Since when has it been your duty to encourage them to control our every waking moment? We need less government not more. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 There is plenty of free parking in Widnes & you are right in the middle of all the High St names ,& there is still a TJ's there ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Asp, it was "Government" that caused the problem in the first place; thanks to Nick Ridley's relaxation of planning laws, which let rip the out of town developments, which have killed T/centres. He was warned at the time, as the same thing had already occured in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Obs, that doesn't explain why you want to encourage government to take even more money off us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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