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Cleopatra

Hillsborough

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The haste to enter was caused (per the report) by turnstiles that couldnt possibly cope with the volume (see 1981 / 87 / 88 for earlier examples of near misses) and the police then losing the plot and letting anyone in anyhow with minutes to go before the game.

 

Human nature says that you may move a little quicker as you know the match is about to start and you may miss it. Human nature again says that a pack will move in one direction if there are indicators that that is the right way to go. A big sign saying standing over the tunnel was probably that indicator which attracted people to that location. The report also cited that the crowds would be unfamiliar with the venue adding to the confusion and thus automatic response to a sign.

 

Any crowd needs control. There are repeated incidents of crowds regardless of the the venue (pop concert / religous events) where the sudden surge or movement of people in a sudden direction without control causes death and injury without any malicious intent. Its not new particulary in football grounds. Apart from the above, Burnden Park and Rangers also had fatal incidents on terraces.

 

I havent heard from anyone about the alleged abuses by fans other than those who have now been throughly discredited. Your source could have miscontrued the same or indeed seen such a small minority as to not be reported by anyone else. The fact remains that if such a small unreported minority did misbehave, it wasnt causative towards the tragedy. I think therefore despite their alleged behaviour this report shows that they should actually have a clear conscious per se.

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Believe the Coloseum could be evacuated in minutes - if the Romans could do it, why can't we? Plus, it was an all seater stadium.:unsure:

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Believe the Coloseum could be evacuated in minutes - if the Romans could do it, why can't we? Plus, it was an all seater stadium.:unsure:

 

 

Coloseum? Is that when you need a bag?

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Odd Eagle that you don't like scousers and you have a scouse friend, does he no?

 

 

What gave you that idea?

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This

 

Not quite hatred' date=' definitely not misguided, I am surprised you find it baffling (there have been plenty clues) certainly[/quote']

 

:wink:

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You were there and I accept everything you saw on the day, I also believe what was reported to me by someone who I have known for over 40 years, he is from Liverpool and had no reason to make things up, therefore I suggest that it wasn't possible for you to see everything that occured outside the ground.

I fail to see how a report or reports can establish that every Liverpool supporter was blameless. A large majority probably,those already inside the ground definitely, but those outside? Is not possible that in their haste to get in they were all not as innocent as is being reported.

 

Seeing as you seem unable or unwilling to read the HIP report (or you need a monika change from Eagle to ostrich) here is a link to a BBC video report that you need only watch. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19609483

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Anyone read the Hillsborough report? It says that lives could have been saved if the emergency services had acted faster. It also says that the emergency services and the police tried to deflect blame onto innocent fans.

 

Just reminding everyone that this is how this post started, quite a sensible and factual statement by Cleo, yet once again it degenerates into a petty school playground name calling squabble, and before someone pulls me up and informs me that this is what forums are for, surely not, are we not mature enough to discuss a subject and inject a little light hearted banter without descending into such a pit of bitterness almost bordering on hatred, especially over a subject so emotive to so many families that have lost love ones.

We should be ashamed of ourselves!.

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I am on page 87 at the moment,it is shocking read of a complete shambles, it is difficult to imagine the desperation and helplessness of the fans.

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I am on page 87 at the moment,it is shocking read of a complete shambles, it is difficult to imagine the desperation and helplessness of the fans.

It takes a big man to accept when he has been wrong, a great many people, who have believed the vile and slanderous lies which the Authorities and the press have propagated for years, will have to do some deep soul searching and come to terms with things they have said and done.

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yet once again it degenerates into a petty school playground name calling squabble, and before someone pulls me up and informs me that this is what forums are for, surely not,

 

Is that a poke at me alg? Because what I have posted, is that forums are for people to have and be able to post opposing views full stop.

 

What forums are not for, is to use those views as an excuse to name call, humiliate or abuse other people until they submit.

 

To a certain degree we may all be guilty, but this post has IMO totally gone over the top.

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I agree, with the last 4 posts,.

 

Perhaps we call all learn something, when we are talking about an incident where people lost their lives, it is very easy to let emotions govern what it posted. Deep breaths before posting, I think this one was to close to home as some posters new people who had died and some where their .

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Is that a poke at me alg? Because what I have posted, is that forums are for people to have and be able to post opposing views full stop.

 

What forums are not for, is to use those views as an excuse to name call, humiliate or abuse other people until they submit.

 

To a certain degree we may all be guilty, but this post has IMO totally gone over the top.

No Wolfie honestly, I could not remember and I fact did not wish to remember and I do agree whole heartedly with what you have just said, we all love a bit of a leg pull and as you have so quite rightly stated we went completely over the top on this one, but hey! I have said enough.

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"Some events go beyond football and the traditional rivalries we have. Last Wednesday's report by the Hillsborough Independent Panel was one of those moments. Whoever you support and wherever your allegiance, it was impossible not to be moved by the revelations. What we heard was shocking and disgusting"

Gary Neville.

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I find Eagles earlier posts disrespectful and downright wrong. I was one of the fans outside the ground that day, and one of the first through the gates. It was total chaos outside with no stewards and only a handful of mounted police. There were only 7 turnstiles to go through, and many of us had been delayed by roadworks on our way to Sheffield hence a lot of fans turned up late. Police had formed a cordon away from the ground checking that fans had tickets before they got the area just outside the turnstiles where it was very overcrowded. When we complained to a policeman about the overcrowding. He told us that they were about to open the gates. To say that it wa due to drunken ticketless fans is a down right lie. Luckily we had been to the semi the year before and we decided to head towards the corner flag area, this I have no doubt saved my life. Mancs like you give your club a bad name as have the <people> who chanted at OT yesterday. Go back and crawl back into the gutter you came from. YNWA JFT96

Edited by Dizzy
*'d words removed and replaced with 'people'

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I find Eagles earlier posts disrespectful and downright wrong. I was one of the fans outside the ground that day, and one of the first through the gates. It was total chaos outside with no stewards and only a handful of mounted police. There were only 7 turnstiles to go through, and many of us had been delayed by roadworks on our way to Sheffield hence a lot of fans turned up late. Police had formed a cordon away from the ground checking that fans had tickets before they got the area just outside the turnstiles where it was very overcrowded. When we complained to a policeman about the overcrowding. He told us that they were about to open the gates. To say that it wa due to drunken ticketless fans is a down right lie. Luckily we had been to the semi the year before and we decided to head towards the corner flag area, this I have no doubt saved my life. Mancs like you give your club a bad name as have the di**heads who chanted at OT yesterday. Go back and crawl back into the gutter you came from. YNWA JFT96

 

Virginian, your bitterness is understandable but please don't take the replies posted on this forum as being genuine opinions, we (members) very often fall into the trap of 'point scoring' against other members, very often statements are made on here as I'm sure they are also made on other forums that don't reflect the true opinion of those that have made them, I'm not attempting to speak on behalf of other forum members but I'm sure I'm not far off the mark, unfortunately when many of the comments were made on here the true facts had not been disclosed and perhaps the members opinions have been modified dramatically.

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You just can't help yourself can you , how desperately sad you must be to cling on to anything at all that you think justifies your vicious quotes and behaviour, I bet you were gutted when you saw that the reports findings completely absolved* the fans of any blame whatsoever and pointed out that they had been the victims of a vile slur that took 23 years to come out. You post your "opinions" in order to deliberately upset or hurt fellow posters, some of whom you know have been through this horrific trauma and the resulting lies spread by many including yourself and yet you persist, only because you have the cover of anonymity. You are a coward. At least the other trolls seem to have some shame and have been conspicuous by their absence in this particular Hillsborough thread. I suggest you just apologise and disappear and stop digging deeper. You're wrong, I know it, you know it, everyone on here knows it and now at long last the whole world knows it.

 

 

* thanks Cleo.

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