British manufacturing

[Cleopatra]

Asperity cussing...?

[asperity]

Bleedin' right mate

[Cleopatra]

Ee, lad, yer lettin em get to ya.

[inky pete]

The type 45s use the Samson system, which is made by Bae systems.

The Samson system being the primary defence system radars, the rathian systems are navigation and software.

As I have said many times, I am all for World trade, but are strategic industries, such as defence, energy ect should stay British.

 

We are lucky that Bae Systems are one of the best defence contractors in the World.

 

Samson is a weapons control radar. It (and a destroyer generally!) is pretty useless without accurate navigation! Raytheon make the best radars for the job, and we use the best products that they make.

 

And what of the Phallanx systems and the F-35C's?

 

Did you know that we have dozens of our own engineers working at the heart of the development program for the F-35C? And already have RAF pilots in the US going through exactly the same training program as their USN and USMC counterparts?

 

The RAF also use the very latest versions of the American Sidewinder missile, the latest Chinooks and C-130's, highly advanced US AWACS and C-cubed aircraft, along with Reaper and Predator remote piloted drones. Then, of course, we all know that the British Army flys the Boeing AH-64 Apache - in the form of the "D" model, the most advanced and without doubt the very best attack helicopter in the world. In fact, the British Army Apaches are actually built under licence by Westland in the UK and feature a Roll Royce engine which delivers slightly MORE power than the General Electric engine in the US versions.

 

While it may be true that the US (and others, including the UK) decline to sell their most high tech products to certain customers, NATO member states generally place no such restrictions on each other. In fact, it has long been NATO policy for as many NATO members as possible to use the same equipment.

[observer]

Obviously, the obvious isn't obvious to you Asp! As to "competing", perhaps you could advise how we compete with Chinese and Indian workers on a $dollar a day?

[Lt Kije]

The variant of the Apache, the UK has is the AH1, it has a RollsRoyce engine, different defence mechanisms and comes in kit form from the USA. They were made at Agusta Westland, where most of them still are,due to problems with the flight simulater used for training.

 

Some of the AWACS, work out of RAF Lincoln, the company I work for do work there, we are a contractor to an American company that look after sensitive equipment on the planes, they do the RAF don't.

 

The company do work on Faslaine,Conninisbury,and Lincoln, we also do work an Sealand (DARA) and at Donington

[asperity]

So you have just given up then Obs? The Chinese and India have won and we just have to roll over and die :roll:

[observer]

Not given owt up Asp; you mentioned "competition", I asked HOW we compete with a $dollar per day labour force?

[inky pete]

The variant of the Apache, the UK has is the AH1,

 

Wrong! The AH-1 is the Bell Cobra or Super Cobra - older, slower, and less capable than the Boeing AH-64 Apache. The UK have never flown any versions of this aircraft since it first entered service way back in 1971. We have the Apache AH-64D, the very latest variant which the US military has.

 

it has a RollsRoyce engine,

 

Correct, a slightly more powerful engine producing 2,100 shp rather than 1,890 shp. I told you that.

 

different defence mechanisms

 

Wrong! The UK versions have EXACTLY the same AN/APG-78 Longbow radar and fire control system as the US versions capable of tracking, prioritising and engaging up to 256 different targets simultaneously. Along with an upgraded missile launch detection and decoying system - a UK product which the Americans are buying to retro-fit to their own Apaches.

 

comes in kit form from the USA.

 

True. Also irrelevant. Your point was that the Yanks don't let us buy their best stuff. This contract PROVES that they not only will, they'll even show us how it all works, help us to assemble our own - including how to integrate a different engine into the airframe and the software of the control systems, and then buy back from us the improvements we've made to their original design.

 

They were made at Agusta Westland, where most of them still are,due to problems with the flight simulater used for training.

 

Wrong! Westland built 67 Apaches - designated WAH-64's - at their factory in Yeovil. The first nine Apache helicopters were authorised for service by the director of British Army Aviation on 16 January 2001. The 67th and final Apache was handed over to the British Army in July 2004. Their are currently 48 Apaches operational with British Army units, a couple have been destroyed, and the remainder are being used for training, development, and a War Spares Reserve (stored, ready to be shipped to operational units to replace battle loses).

 

Pilots are trained in the US alongside their American counterparts.

 

It is simply NOT TRUE that the Yanks won't let us have their best equipment. They have nothing better than the Apache, they let us build it under licence, and have even adopted some of the improvements we've made to it.

[Bill]

The last time I heard an argument like this was at a Star Trek convention with two trekies arguing about the merits of a type three-phasor over a Klingon disrupter.

 

 

Bill

[Lt Kije]

Inky you are wrong!!!!

[Dizzy]

The last time I heard an argument like this was at a Star Trek convention with two trekies arguing about the merits of a type three-phasor over a Klingon disrupter.

 

[observer]

Think the Klingon cloaking device had Kirk beat?!

[Davy51]

Not to make a political point about the economy... The economy has been suffering for years due to cheaper production overseas & every party has seized the chance to make its figures look better on its own watch by taking advantage of farming out more & more of our requirements to foreign production at the expense of UK employment .The only chance any government in this day & age has of balancing its books is by further strangling the economy through hyper taxation...some of that attained through dearer essential services producing more VAT. No wonder our consumer led economy is in dire straits with the explosive unemployment totals & the pound in peoples pockets shaved to the bare bone ,there is no spare money to get the economy moving. It doesn't help either having a consumer economy where most things that we could be producing ourselves have to be imported.

[observer]

Think I agree with your general thrust Dave; but there is money to stimulate growth in the economy, but we have Governments that arn't prepared to tax the super-rich, even if the HMRC and tax laws were fit for purpose. We also have Companies that outsource services to cheap labour markets, hence those regular cold calls from Bangalore! Ironically, in theory, the constant search by capitalism for new sources of cheap labour could eventually, but unintentionally, realise the dream of international socialist, of equalising living standards throughout the globe. As one labour force becomes educated and organised, their price goes up, eventually leaving the multi-nationals to play one group off against the other. However, somehow I can't see such equal distribution working out, as it hasn't yet happened in any individual Country.

[asperity]

Not given owt up Asp; you mentioned "competition", I asked HOW we compete with a $dollar per day labour force?

 

 

If I had the answer do you think I would be sailing ship's a living? No, I'd be sailing my ship for pleasure

 

You're thre one with all the answers Obs, so come on what is your solution?

[observer]

You used the term "compete", not me; and I'm merely asking how you compete with a $dollar per day? Automation, robotics, wage suppression, inovation, de-manning, up skilling etc etc - will only take us so far. :unsure:

[asperity]

So you don't have an answer Obs, but you're content to sit there moaning about us buying from the third world. Well the truth is that we are competing in many areas such as defence and engineering. The fact that cars are manufactured in the UK (who cares who owns the company apart from you?) is proof of that.

[observer]

Buying third world products means we will cease to even have the capacity to make them in the future, and therefore (in this volatile world) create an insecure reliance on others: plus lengthy dole queues.

[Davy51]

There was a history programme that finished last Friday ,think it was called People's History, but the economic demise of the UK was highlighted in last week's 20th Century episode. The decline has been going on for nearly a hundred years with the birth of automated production reducing the number of available jobs. It just goes to show that only the 3rd World emerging economies can benefit because of their cheap labour , as Obs was saying. I would go so far as to ask " Is mankind too clever for its own good ?"

[Bill]

Speaking of history, I wonder how many recall the days during Magie’s reign, when all the talk was about how the great technological revolution would result in huge reductions in the time that people needed to work. And with everyone having so much free time on their hands, new businesses would spring up to service the needs for rest and relaxation.

 

Didn’t quite work out that way did it.

 

 

Bill

[Davy51]

Yes Bill, then a few short years later they are wanting everyone to work longer because of the pension deficit. Utopia didn't last long.

[asperity]

And yet more evidence of Britain's manufacturing decline:

 

Mail online

 

Of course the likes of Lt Kije will claim that, because the companies are foreign owned, Britain's input is zilch. How patriotic of you!

[Lt Kije]

The Companies are foreign owned Asp

[algy]

The Companies are foreign owned Asp

Employing UK labour (hopefully)!