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Davy51

Public Transport

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Sorry Baz but you have got the facts wrong yet again.

 

When the pilots were planned Park Road and Long Lane were included because the council wanted to see what the effect would be of putting a 20mph limit in on such roads. Only on Long Lane were the side streets on one side also included in the pilot and the speed limit also set to 20mph. Hence the pilots had signs on both sides of Park Road and one side of Long Lane which were included in the cost of the pilots.

 

After the pilot was started there was much public concern off Park Road because the side streets were still set at 30mph and so these were retrospectively set at 20mph and the previously installed boundary signs between the previously 30mph side streets and the 20mph Park Road were not required.

 

The 20mph limited areas produced a First Year Rate of Return of 800% compared with most road safety scheme targets of 250%. The council always knew that having exceptions at 30mph did incur a cost for boundary signs but also reduced the cost of repeater signs on that particular road.

 

There was never any conspiracy by anyone to hide anything. 20mph limits are recognised as excellent value whether certain roads are included or excluded.

 

Rod

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I found a few sites which are questioning the benefits claimed by amongst others Portsmouth Council.....

 

The Telegraph even ran a story back in 2010 which questions how the Council in Portsmouth can claim reductions in accidents when an independant company carried out research at over 200 sites which showed that accidents and injuries had actually increased!!

 

My link

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But if this is all about safety Rod, why didn't they keep Long lane as a 20 limit? There is a high school full of crazy kids that come spilling out every school day at 3:30 and have absolutely no road sense and often end up causing cars to brake. My office used to be on Long lane and I know very well that this is the case....

 

Same with park Road.... Park Road Primary is just off Park Road and yet Park Road is a 30 limit.... Is this a case of cost over safety or a willing compromise to try and show that they are being "shown to do something" (a phrase I nicked from another site I admit!!)

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Dizzy

 

Yes, of course its all free. Even the fuel in the tank is already bought, so really doesn't cost you anything. I think you will find that when depreciation on a car starts to reduce this is balanced by an increase in maintenance and repair bills.

 

So no real answer then? The fuel in my tank is bought by me so it’s NOT free so I have no idea what you are talking about there. :roll:

 

As for depreciation balance well our maintenance and repair bills over the past 10 years on both our cars have been very low Rod (regardless of if we have actually paid or not as I know how much they are). Both cars are well over 10 years old, one's done just under 60k and ones done over 110k so maybe older cars were built better and meant to be more reliable and last longer :wink:

 

You choosing destinations at random and then asking how to get there by bus is irrelevant. Anyone who is smart about their travel and public transport use would say there is no benefit of going right the way across town to shop in a particular store when you have plenty of choice locally.

 

Now that is getting really low in the 'sensible reply' status Rod.

 

It is NOT irrelevant at all and it was a serious question... of which you seem to either have no answer or are not willing to say.

 

I certainly did not choose that journey at 'random' Rod and I take your return comment as being rather derogatory to be honest. It is one I do regularly (well more or less anyway apart from the double return trip to Penketh as that’s usually a single return trip) For some reason I thought you may know the answer given that you are usually pretty good on these things and know all about costs and public transport. Maybe I will do it by bus next time and let you know my findings, I did just try to find out the amount of time it would on the Warrington Transport Route Planner but unfortunately I couldn’t seem to find some busses or times for the roads I typed in :roll: Their site doesn't show fare prices either but not to worry.

 

It may surprise you to know that I DO plan my routes actually so I am 'smart' (without a calculator) and if I have more than one place to go in a journey or day I do it in the what I believe to be the most sensible and time/cost efficient way.

 

I trust that you enjoyed your walk today.

 

I did actually apart from standing in some doggy 'you know what' again and doing my usual thing of picking up other people discarded rubbish and then screaming at a stupid driver that ran a red light as we were crossing the road ... but hey that's a completely new topic so I'll stop there.... I had a nice time though all things considered :D

 

PS… you still haven’t replied to this despite me asking twice , so does that mean we agree on something :D

 

“……… the fact I said that tax/insurance/mot would all have to be paid regardless of whether I/we used our cars so to be fair they shouldn't be included when you are comparing bus fare costs to pence per mile car travel cost.”

 

Have a nice day Rod, the sun’s shining again YIPPEE

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If people want to ride bikes, let them but they should be registered and insured in case they cause an accident. If people want to drive cars, that is their choice and whatever the cost, each individual makes that choice according to their own circumstances. Public transport is only an option for most if the provision is where and when it needs to be.

 

I will decide what I should or should not be doing for the atmosphere,exercise/health etc. according to my own needs, wishes and pocket and I expect others will too!

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I still think that spending £750k on a scheme which has apparently resulted in an average speed reduction of 1.4 mph is somewhat ridiculous. In areas such as Portsmouth they have statistics showing that in some cases, accident figures have increased!!!

 

I don't know what Warringtons figures show but it would be interesting to see if the casualty figures have all come down across the board as this was surely the intentions?

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Baz

 

We have gone over this time and time again on another thread.

 

Taken from the council's report on the pilots :-

 

8.14 The two residential road trial areas produced a reduction of 9.3 casualties or 27% in the study period combined.

 

This reduction was in addition to any reductions found in the rest of the town over the same period.

 

Regarding the Telegraph report this was based on a very small increase in the small number of killed or seriously injured. The figures have been put in perspective by traffic officers, councillors and DfT officials since then. Traffic Officers in many other towns(including Warrington) are implementing wide area 20mph limits and the DfT has made it easier and cheaper for local authorities to do so.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Rod

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Dizzy

 

You said :-

 

PS… you still haven’t replied to this despite me asking twice , so does that mean we agree on something

 

“……… the fact I said that tax/insurance/mot would all have to be paid regardless of whether I/we used our cars so to be fair they shouldn't be included when you are comparing bus fare costs to pence per mile car travel cost.”

 

Have a nice day Rod, the sun’s shining again YIPPEE

 

But tax/insurance and MOT do not have to be paid by the bus user unless they also own a car. Many people are saving bucket loads of money by getting rid of their first or second car and using a mix of walking, cycling public transport and occasional hiring or sharing of a car.

 

I can see that you probably won't be one of the "early adopters".

 

Yes today was a really nice day. I had to go across to Worsley and it was a very pleasant ride.

 

Best regards

 

 

Rod

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Perhaps the reduction in casualties was more to do with the previously injured learning their lesson, and nothing to do with the reduction in speed.

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Perhaps the reduction in casualties was more to do with the previously injured learning their lesson, and nothing to do with the reduction in speed.

 

That does not explain why the "previously injured" only adopted such a change in behaviour on the roads where the speed limit was reduced to 20mph.

 

Regards

 

Rod

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Baz

 

We have gone over this time and time again on another thread.

 

Taken from the council's report on the pilots :-

 

 

 

This reduction was in addition to any reductions found in the rest of the town over the same period.

 

Regarding the Telegraph report this was based on a very small increase in the small number of killed or seriously injured. The figures have been put in perspective by traffic officers, councillors and DfT officials since then. Traffic Officers in many other towns(including Warrington) are implementing wide area 20mph limits and the DfT has made it easier and cheaper for local authorities to do so.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Rod

 

Well if it is in the report it must be right then..... :roll:

 

what are the figures now; after a few years? have average speeds gone back up as they did towards the end of the trials? Is it going to cost more to install calming measures?....

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Baz

 

I am presuming these are rhetorical questions. But if not then I think you need to address them to WBC.

 

Have a good day.

 

Rod

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Ooops! almost got caught asking that. :oops: Hamada was just coming upto me then turned around to go and bring his shay. At least he did't see what I typed - I hope! :unsure:

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I don't have a car any more and use public transport most of the time when I'm home. As regards convenience can I give as an example my experience today? I left the Anvil in Wigan (next to the bus station for anyone not familiar with this very pleasant watering hole) at 3:20 this afternoon and arrived home at 4:00 at a cost of £4.50.

 

Asp, as a 60 year old, why didn't you use your buspass? Just curious :unsure:

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A sore point that Wolfie! As I get older they have been increasing the age limit for bus passes. At the moment I will be eligible in January next year. I think it's something to do with their increasing the retirement age for women. <_< <_<

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Baz, why were you posting at 3.34am? :shock:

 

woke up.... posted..... read Kijes latest posts..... fell asleep :D

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Personal question Rod - hope you dont mind - Do you look sexy in lycra? :wink::)

 

Cleopatra, I couldn't possibly comment. :wink:

 

Regards

 

Rod

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So now Asp is blaming the cost of public transport on women... Now that is NOT fair :evil::lol::P

 

PS yes you can Rod and it would go no further ... honest :lol:

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Behave yourself Dizzy! I would never ever dare blame a woman for anything. Life experience over 60+ years :( :sad: :(:wink:

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woke up.... posted..... read Kijes latest posts..... fell asleep :D

 

Ok Fair enough. I hope you didn't have nightmares when you fell asleep. :blink:

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