Nick Tessla Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 if you burnt Star Trek merchandise would it incur the wrath of scientologists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 But can they not read for themselves? Surely in the good book, it does not tell them to kill others to gain rewards in the "afterlife" I am afraid I nothing about the koran as religion is not my thing; my sister however is a scholar of religion and did her thesis at University on Islam (although that was about 30 years ago!!) First of all it's not koran, it's Qur'an (see my pictures). It does in the Qur'an say that only Allah has the right to take a life, just as in your bible it says that only God has the right to. However, it does say you can kill someone in self defence if they are about to kill you, but you must not kill them if they turn away from you instead. It does not say you can go out and kill hundreds of people for the sake of killing or because they disagree with you. What it does say is that anyone who kills another just for the sake of it will spend eternity in the relentlessly torturous flames of fire. I think most of the muslims rebels can read for themselves but the rebel leaders are masters in the art of brainwashing and can make them believe anything they want them to believe. Once They get hold of a prospective young rebel it is practically impossible for them to free themselves from the grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 if you burnt Star Trek merchandise would it incur the wrath of scientologists? No, but the klingons might come and get you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Tessla Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 There was an article on the radio in which they asked about approved ways to dispose of old Qur'ans - an islamic scholar suggested that one the ways was actually to burn them, as long as you totally reduced them to ashes and then disposed of them in a body of moving water e'g' river . Other ways being burial and weighting down in a moving body of water. Is that correct , Cleo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Regarding disposing of unwanted religious and Islamic literature the great classical Hanafi Jurist Allamah Haskafi states: “Those books that are no longer wanted: One should wipe away the names of Allah, his Angels and His Messengers and burn the rest. There is nothing wrong with casting them into a flowing river as they are (i.e without wiping the names away) or burying them and burning them (excluding the Qur’an, see below), is advised. Thus, if one decides to get rid of religious literature, the right thing would be to bury them by wrapping them in something pure first, in a place where people would not walk very rarely. Similarly, it would be permitted to tie the books and papers with something heavy and cast them into a flowing river. You may also burn them, but in this case, only after erasing the names of Allah, his Angels and his Messengers (peace and blessings be upon them all). As far the old and unusable Qur’ans are concerned, it is not permitted to burn them unless there is no other way to dispose them. Allamah ibn Abidin, a great Hanafi Scholar states, “If a copy of the Qur’an becomes old and it is difficult to read it, it should NOT be burnt in fire.” This is also the view of Imam Mohammed (Student of Imam Abu Hanifah). It is best to bury them after wrapping them into something pure and clean. The conclusion is, there are two methods of disposing an unusable Qur’an and Islamic literature: (1) Wrapping them in a piece of cloth or something pure and burying them respectfully in a place where people normally do not walk upon. (2) Fastening the items to something heavy such as a stone and placing it respectfully in flowing river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Tessla Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 That's interesting Cleo. I would have thought the burning method suggested by Hanafi Jurist Allamah Haskafi would be problematical as ,in my ignorance, I would have thought the wiping away of the names would be an act of desecration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Wierd tut tut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Wierd tut tut. Pfffffffffffft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Even wierder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Not enough mumbo for your jumbo, obs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Plenty of it in religion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Not enough mumbo for your jumbo, obs? Never has his mumbo been so jumboed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 For Pakistan, the result is more than 4 million addicts. Some of the youngest end up in mud-walled rooms being drilled in extreme Muslim doctrine by the Taliban who roam relatively freely in Peshawar. 'Sometimes the militants take these children to North Waziristan and teach them to be suicide bombers and sometimes they give the children drugs and the child might not even know that he is going to be blown up,' says Ali. Read this and thought to post it here to show one way in which terrorist suicide bombers are obtained (as opposed to recruited) and indoctrinated. To demonstrate that they are brainwashed by the extremists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 The mere fact they're brought up with "a religious belief system" makes them vunerable to it's extremes - which in Afghanistan runs from denying women an education and rights; passing laws in their Parliament to legalise rape in marriage, to stoning adultorous women - if they did that over here, we'd run out of stones! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Cleo, what I am about to say is not a loaded question and if you could explain to me in simple terms because after all I am a simple man, I realise it may be difficult because to most people religion is a personal and emotive subject, think of any book whether it is the Holy Bible, Qu'ran or the 5 books of the Torah, with printed or written words and images in ink contained on its paper pages, why is it so terrible to burn that book, it has no historical or intrinsic value unless it is very ancient, then it may become a rare object, it is just made of paper and cardboard, burning only destroys the paper it does not destroy the meaning of the words that had been displayed on that paper, so where is the crime in burning any unwanted book. (no emoticons here). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 The mere fact they're brought up with "a religious belief system" makes them vunerable to it's extremes - which in Afghanistan runs from denying women an education and rights; passing laws in their Parliament to legalise rape in marriage, to stoning adultorous women - if they did that over here, we'd run out of stones! You said it! Uk has been in a moral decline for yonks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Tessla Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 passing laws in their Parliament to legalise rape in marriage, to stoning adultorous women - if they did that over here, we'd run out of stones! It is a disgrace that it is only in the last 20 years or so that marital rape has been properly established as a criminal offence in England and Wales , and about 30 years in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 So some US clerical staff, happen to burn some copies of th Quran, while having a spring clean; and the whole of Afghanistan bursts into flame, with the murder of US officials. Just how do we think we're going to bring 21st century civilization to these Countries, when they're stuck with a 7th century mind set? As Jim Royle would say -"Spring clean my ars*! This by Allison Stanger who is a political scientist and professor, the Russell J. Leng '60 Professor of International Politics and Economics at Middlebury College[1] and the founding director of Middlebury's Rohatyn Center for International Affairs. Stanger has been a member of the Council on Foreign Relations since 2004.:- Book burning is not something typically associated with freedom-of-speech-loving America. When books are burned in a country desperately in need of more books, where only 43% of men and 12% of women are literate, it should prompt questions. NATO officials and President Obama the act unintentional. U.S. service members were following orders to burn the Qurans and other reading materials that may or may not have been used by Afghan inmates to pass encoded messages between themselves at Parwan Detention Facility, which adjoins the base. The incinerated materials were taken from a library at Parwan Detention Facility. The burning took place in view of local Afghan staff who felt compelled to get word of the action out to the population at large. I want to believe that the burning of Qurans was an unintended mistake. But surely any soldier based in Afghanistan after a decade-long American intervention knows that the desecration of the quran is an inflammatory and offensive act in a Muslim country. But torching the Qurans in front of Afghans for whom it is a sacred text could just as easily be construed as an expression of growing frustration with the accelerating deterioration of the U.S. position in Afghanistan and an accompanying loss of faith in the applicability of Western Enlightenment values in the Afghan context. It is an act that could just as well be classified in the same category as the four Marines who were videotaped urinating on dead Taliban fighters. The battle for hearts and minds is clearly in a downward spiral when American men and women in uniform are the perpetrators of such atrocities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Without labouring the point anymore, what is the 'difference between misguided idiots who will walk into a market place full of women and children and detonate bombs' (quoting Baz) and misguided idiots who burn a holy book? Apart from the loss of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Oh come on now wolfie you don't really need that explaining to you. And I have alrerady explained that suicide bombers have been brainwashed. In their right minds they just wouldn't do it. And the misguided idiots who burned the Qur'an were ordered to do so by their superiors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Cleo, what I am about to say is not a loaded question and if you could explain to me in simple terms because after all I am a simple man, I realise it may be difficult because to most people religion is a personal and emotive subject, think of any book whether it is the Holy Bible, Qu'ran or the 5 books of the Torah, with printed or written words and images in ink contained on its paper pages, why is it so terrible to burn that book, it has no historical or intrinsic value unless it is very ancient, then it may become a rare object, it is just made of paper and cardboard, burning only destroys the paper it does not destroy the meaning of the words that had been displayed on that paper, so where is the crime in burning any unwanted book. (no emoticons here). Cleo, any particular reason for not answering my question, I know it is your prerogative to choose if you answer or not, however an acknowledgement would be nice, even pi** of you mithering old git!, would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 "Brainwashed"?! Surely any "believer" has been "brainwashed", if they take such nonesense seriously. If kids were brought up with a secular education, they may develope enquiring minds and question everything with scientific rigour. btw, it could have been worse, they could have used the books as toilet paper! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Oh dearie me. I Don't think I read that one, me old corn plaster. I don't think it's so much the materials used but the respect for the sacred texts written therein and the fact that Allah trusted the works to the people to respect and care for. More that I cannot say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 "Brainwashed"?! Surely any "believer" has been "brainwashed", if they take such nonesense seriously. If kids were brought up with a secular education, they may develope enquiring minds and question everything with scientific rigour. btw, it could have been worse, they could have used the books as toilet paper! You know, you really are one big ar*e-wipe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 A well thought out logical riposte? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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