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Nick Tessla

A Primark kinda town - Warrington is

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Communism wasn't all bad.

 

Harry,

 

in its true and unwashed form; communism isn't bad.

 

Unfortunately there always has to be someone in charge; which makes them "superior" which gives them the want that they should get more than those they "rule"

 

Therefore communism will never work!! :D

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What would YOU do then?

 

Pay them better wages with better conditions.

 

Arguably, slavery is better - at least the owner has an interest in keeping his charge alive and in a fit condition to work.

 

But if what we're saying here is that exploitation of the vulnerable is ok, I think I know where I stand.

 

Full of surprises, this place.

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What would YOU do then?

 

1. Pay them better wages with better conditions.

 

2. Arguably, slavery is better - at least the owner has an interest in keeping his charge alive and in a fit condition to work.

 

3. But if what we're saying here is that exploitation of the vulnerable is ok, I think I know where I stand.

 

Full of surprises, this place.

 

1. Go on then..... Go and get your suits hand made and your shirts.... (there is a chap in Wilmslow I can recommend) I'm sure he will make tee-shirts too if the price is right.

 

2. Your argument here is no different to what I put before..... Anything is better than nothing. If we don't buy goods from these places the kids will not eat. What else can you do?

 

3. We are not exploiting the vulnerable because we have no choice where the stuff is made. If we all object and insist that they all get paid to be kids and don't have to work; then what??

 

As people have said here before; we are not a massively rich global super power anymore and we couldn't possibly feed and clothe all these extra people, pay them not to use child labour and then pay grown ups to do the work instead..... So what exactly is your solution? You can't just throw money at it.... Band-Aid tried that 30 years ago against famine and that is still a regular occurance regardless of the money

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After putting on 3 pairs of socks, 6 jumpers, 6 pairs of trousers, 5 woolly hats, 4 scarfs, 2 thick coats and a pair of boots, I waddled outside.

 

Ten seconds later I was laying face down in the snow and I couldn't move.

 

"You're coming with me" said the Primark security guard.

 

 

 

Ok, so this should have gone into the jokes section, or maybe the cold weather thread, but as this thread is about Primark I decided to put it here.

(just to let you know and save you saying so) :wink:

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They're still searching the wreckage of the factory. :wink:

 

 

And this is your "proof"? Not very convincing I'm afraid.

:roll: :roll:

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Fugs, the working conditions in third world countries have improved more in the last 20 years than was achieved in this country in 150. I'm sorry if you feel that being told about reality is the same as being patronised, but that's life. If you're so concerned that the workers in third world countries are being exploited then do something about it instead of complaining on here. I'm sure they don't think that they are being exploited if they have a roof over their heads and food in their bellies, because they know that the alternative is much worse. As for your comment about slavery being a better alternative, well that is just plain ridiculous. :wink: :wink:

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Baz

 

1. I said improve wages and conditions, not my wardrobe, thanks. These improvements would come from employers (there's a massive economic divide between classes in countries like China and India) and companies like Apple (2011 profit around $26 billion), this is how it works:

 

“You can set all the rules you want, but they’re meaningless if you don’t give suppliers enough profit to treat workers well,” said one former Apple executive with firsthand knowledge of the supplier responsibility group. “If you squeeze margins, you’re forcing them to cut safety.”

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?pagewanted=6&_r=1

 

2. I'm not arguing for slavery, just pointing out that a slave owner has more interest in the welfare of his slaves than an unscrupulous employer has in his employees.

 

3. So a perceived necessity negates the idea of exploitation?

 

My solution? Stop calling it "so called" exploitation and see it for what it is.

 

asp - Dismiss my comment about slavery as ridiculous if you want, but I notice you can't refute it.

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Clutching at straws there Obs :roll: :roll:

 

 

Fugs, what is there to refute? It was a ridiculous statement to make in my opinion. :wink:

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It's a pretty standard argument TBH, I've outlined it twice now and it's not that complicated. Unscrupulous employers can simply wear their workers out and replace them at no cost, not so the slave owner.

 

Is it Pugwash instead of Bligh today then? :?

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:D It took large numbers of deaths, the pollution of rivers and local enviroments for the the Industrialised Nations to gradually reform working conditions - so armed with this acrued knowledge, there can't be any excuse; other than exploitation and profit; for inflicting it anew on third world populations. :roll:

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Obs you are trying to equate a large industrial disaster (causing the deaths of thousands of people most of whom had no connection to the plant) caused by poor management and maintenance, with the perceived injustice of not paying workers in third world countries the same money that would be paid in the west for the same job. No comparison really :roll: :roll:

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Fug.... stop buying anything that isn't built in Britain then.... or don't buy from any company that has links with these sweat shops....

 

Make a stand Man!!

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It's a pretty standard argument TBH, I've outlined it twice now and it's not that complicated. Unscrupulous employers can simply wear their workers out and replace them at no cost, not so the slave owner.

 

Is it Pugwash instead of Bligh today then? :?

 

Talking rubbish again. You are saying that a factory owner would spend more money on slaves than on employees? I'd love to see the financial breakdown on that arrangement. People would be queuing up to apply for slavery.

 

As for the Pugwash/Bligh comment, well you've lost me there :blink: :blink:

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...stop buying anything that isn't built in Britain then...

 

That's a strawman argument. Some people here are trying to kid themselves that exploitation doesn't exist in some developing countries.

 

It does.

 

That's it.

 

 

You are saying that a factory owner would spend more money on slaves than on employees?

 

No, that's not what I said at all.

 

...at least the [slave] owner has an interest in keeping his charge alive and in a fit condition to work.

 

That's what I said, the emphasis being on the welfare of the worker, something that some employers don't need to give a toss about because they're easily replaceable at no extra cost.

 

Oh, and, aye aye, Cap'n. :|

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You seem somewhat "all at sea" on this one Asp: BBC News 24 did a report on the Indian cotton industry, where children were breathing in the floating cotton waste - it looked like snow. Some of the kids wern't even being paid, just fed - so I guess that's slavery. While this child labour persists, these kids are receiving no education either - and all in order to provide us with a cheap shirt. :roll:

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Aye aye captain? Whats that about?

 

What you are saying is that the owner of, say, a factory producing women's clothing can, when one of his "exploited" machinists drops dead from overwork and starvation, just drag some random untrained 8 year old waif off the street and set them to work. And not just random work but skilled machinist's work that your average random 8 year old waif isn't born with the skill to do. A lot of training required. Don't forget that the owner of this sweat shop still has to sell a merchantable product to a discerning buyer, someone who isn't going to accept any old tat. As for your arguement for slave labour, what incentive is there for the slaves themselves to produce a good product except the possibilty that the slave owner will spare their miserable lives if they do so? (The USSR is a very good example of how well that idea worked). What a stupid arguement you have managed to produce. And don't bother coming back with some mock maritime comment, you haven't got a clue what I do for a living. :roll: :roll: :roll:

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You seem somewhat "all at sea" on this one Asp: BBC News 24 did a report on the Indian cotton industry, where children were breathing in the floating cotton waste - it looked like snow. Some of the kids wern't even being paid, just fed - so I guess that's slavery. While this child labour persists, these kids are receiving no education either - and all in order to provide us with a cheap shirt. :roll:

 

I will say to you what I said to fugs.... Go buy your shirts and suits from a proper UK based tailor then.

 

Boycott the people that use these factorys....when people stop using them, what happens then; when they aren't even getting fed?

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You seem somewhat "all at sea" on this one Asp: BBC News 24 did a report on the Indian cotton industry, where children were breathing in the floating cotton waste - it looked like snow. Some of the kids wern't even being paid, just fed - so I guess that's slavery. While this child labour persists, these kids are receiving no education either - and all in order to provide us with a cheap shirt. :roll:

 

 

HoHoHo, a maritime connection again :roll: :roll:

 

Again you come up with these cases with no actual proof (and don't bother linking to the BBC news website, thats only proof of how gullible people are). :roll: :roll: :roll:

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I don't buy foreign produce, if I can possibly help it - I buy British as far as possible. The only problem is, it will probably keep Poles in a job, rather than Brits! As for these Indian kids "starving" - with a high proportion of £billionaires and a space industry, one would imagine a caring Indian Government would look after it's own. :wink:

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What you are all forgetting is that while wages may be low in third world countries so also is the price of food and consumables low. Start upping the wages of the workers and the cost of products follow in the same upward direction and so the people end up no better off! :blink:

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What you are all forgetting is that while wages may be low in third world countries so also is the price of food and consumables low. Start upping the wages of the workers and the cost of products follow in the same upward direction and so the people end up no better off! :blink:

 

Steady Cleopatra, you can't bring common sense and logic to the argument, the loveys won't know what to say.

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HoHoHo

 

And a bottle of rum?

 

Sorry, couldn't resist a tap-in there.

 

Peter - stagnation of wages is common sense?

 

So, that puts you still on £3 10/-6 a week 'cos you refused all those wage rises.

 

Oh, and who are these "loveys" [sic] of which you speak?

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I would have thought access to food is more of a problem in third world countries rather than the price, high or low.

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