Using M/Way Hard Shoulder?

[observer]

Good or bad idea?

[Dizzy]

They use the hard shoulder if needed don't they :confused:

[Peter T]

What happens if someone is broken down on the hard shoulder? :confused:

[Dizzy]

Send a recovery truck to shift them as they are classed as 'emergency' vehicles if a motorway area is blocked aren't they

 

[ 04.03.2008, 20:16: Message edited by: Dismayed ]

[disgusted]

Originally posted by Peter:

What happens if someone is broken down on the hard shoulder? :confused:

The lane is closed again until the obstruction is cleared.

 

It works very well on the M42 where the trial has been.

 

Of course, if the bloody middle lane hoggers would just pull over when they should, none of this nonsense would be needed.

[Peter T]

Originally posted by Dismayed:

Send a recovery truck to shift them as they are classed as 'emergency' vehicles if a motorway area is blocked aren't they

Just imagining the chaos and the potential for serious accidents when trying to get out from behind the breakdown.

[Matty]

Originally posted by Dismayed:

They use the hard shoulder if needed don't they :confused:

The active traffic management closes the lane.

 

The hard shoulder is generally only used when you are approaching your exit junction.

 

I have found it works well on the M42.

[observer]

In multiple crashes blocking all lanes, causing a tail back of traffic in ALL lanes (incl the hard shoulder); please explain how a 7ton fire engine gets to the scene quickly to cut folk out the mangled wreckage?

 

[ 04.03.2008, 23:50: Message edited by: observer ]

[Bazj]

They have been known to go up the other way and either fight the fire from the other carriageway or open a gap in the central res to get through.

 

Also coming on the same carriageway in front of the crash and driving back up the now empty motorway would work as well?

[observer]

True, but that would be after the event, initially en route would be with the flow of traffic; only when their progress was blocked, and with the co-operatuion of the police, could other appliances drive the wrong way down the M/Way, adding time to the attendance.

[disgusted]

Originally posted by observer:

True, but that would be after the event, initially en route would be with the flow of traffic; only when their progress was blocked, and with the co-operatuion of the police, could other appliances drive the wrong way down the M/Way, adding time to the attendance.

Of for goodness sake. What's wrong with some people. It's been tried and tested, anmd works well already on the M42. Do you just have to argue and bring up highly unlikely suggetsions for the sake of it?

 

As BazJ says, by the time a fire engine gets to the next junction, it's highly likely traffic would have long since passed and the engine would come down the now empty carriageway.

 

Or would you rather continue with the motorway logjam as it is, just on the offchance that in an area where the speed would be restricted to 50mph, there might once in a blue moon be a muli-vehichle collision that blocks the entire carriageway?

 

 

[Peter T]

I didn't have you down for a lemming, fatshaft.

IF we don't question things, how do we find out?

 

Some of the drivers I have seen on the motorways will use that hard shoulder as an undertaking lane, and others ignore the signs anyway.

It always pays to look outside of the circle.

[Lollipop]

What happens when you come to a slip road? If the slip road is backed up then your going to have a problem with the hard shoulder and People diving out and causing accidents. :confused:

[observer]

Eh Fatshaft; you've obviously never been to a multiple pile up on the M6 in thick fog, with dead, dying and injured strewn all around, praying that the Emergency Services will get to them asap.

 

[ 05.03.2008, 14:47: Message edited by: observer ]

[disgusted]

Originally posted by Lollipop:

What happens when you come to a slip road? If the slip road is backed up then your going to have a problem with the hard shoulder and People diving out and causing accidents. :confused:

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here at all. But anyway, at slip roads it's back to three lanes and opens into the hard shoulder again where the down ramp merges into the motorway, so you're back to four.

 

There's no need for anyone to pull out, they should be able to just come off the slip road and into the hard shoulder lane, of course, just as when there's the normal 3 lanes only, the idiots will still pull over ignoring an empty lane on the inside.

 

The best part bout the M42 trial, is that many still refuse to use it, so those of us that do are usually in the only smooth running lane.

[disgusted]

Originally posted by observer:

Eh Fatshaft; you've obviously never been to a multiple pile up on the M6 in thick fog, with dead, dying and injured strewn all around, praying that the Emergency Services will get to them asap.

Again you're looking at extreme situations.

 

You've got to remember that these areas are 50mph limits for a start, and every overhead active management sign has a speed camera to the rear, so the limits are adhered to pretty rigidly.

 

"Practical experience" of this trial, which I believe is has been running now for more than two years, would seem to suggest that this works very well indeed.

 

Anything that helps rush hour traffic gets the thumbs up from me, I patiently await the blitz on middle lane hoggers similar to the well publicised speeding and drink driving campaigns.

[observer]

Desperation and expediency Fatshaft; cos they couldn't/wouldn't increase the number of lanes by widening or double-decking the M/Way. Niether will they address the bottom line to this issue, which is: toooo many drivers/cars for a finite infrastructure.

[Lollipop]

Fatshaft,

 

Your travelling on the hardshoulder, there is a slip road coming up but you don't want to come off at the slip road. You have to cross the slip road but how due to traffic coming off it, also do people que on the hardshoulder for the slip road or the nearside lane?

 

There was a report in Lancashire of an Ambulance having to travel to the next junction and come back on itself due to traffic blocking the hard shoulder in heavy traffic.

[disgusted]

Originally posted by Lollipop:

Fatshaft,

 

Your travelling on the hardshoulder, there is a slip road coming up but you don't want to come off at the slip road. You have to cross the slip road but how due to traffic coming off it, also do people que on the hardshoulder for the slip road or the nearside lane?

 

There was a report in Lancashire of an Ambulance having to travel to the next junction and come back on itself due to traffic blocking the hard shoulder in heavy traffic.

When approaching a junction, the hard shoulder is marked as "for this exit only", so just like at any other time when the hard shoulder would be closed, those not exiting would have to move over as those in in outer lanes cross to take the exit.

[Windy]

As stated elsewhere on this post it does work well on the M42 but does seem to encourage more traffic on the motorways!! It also generally works with mandatory speed limits and the digital cameras.