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WArrington Guardian states that

RESIDENTS in Poulton North were not consulted over major roadworks on Woolston Grange Avenue and Harpers Road.

 

The work, to build two pedestrian crossings, a bus stop and extensions to footpaths, has begun.

 

But during the consultation procedure homeowners in Poulton North were ‘inadvertently omitted’ from the process, the council says.

 

They should have received notification but only residents in Rixton and Woolston were told.

 

Poulton North Clr Geoff Settle took leaflets to 350 homes that had been missed during the consultation

 

 

Surely the actions are illegal now? and surely the work should stop until the merits have been properly evaluated especially as it will affect traffic flow in this area very severely?

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I doubt there’s going to be many people that would object to a zebra crossing being built or improvements to footpaths and in any case, a procedural mistake shouldn’t mean an automatic stop on a job.

 

If this has been a real contentious issue, then I’m sure we’d have heard about it even though half the people were not properly consulted.

 

 

Bill :)

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Dunno about that, Bill, but an article on the other Warrington news site speaks of "residents' anger" over this.

 

Curiously though (or maybe I'm being a bit thick here), WBC justify the work like this:

 

But Warrington Borough Council says the works has been started in line with office space being built at Orford Park.

 

It is hoped it will encourage 800 workers to walk, cycle or use a bus as their usual means of travel.

 

Just seems a little lacking in logic to me.

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Yes I know what you mean Fug, giving a nonsensical reason for the work is bound to get a few peoples back up.

 

What I was trying to say was that it seems to be more the case that people are upset because they’ve not been told about it and probably sensing some underhanded plan to sneak things through. As a matter of interest, I wonder how many of the people that were consulted objected because in theory, those that weren’t consulted should be the same.

 

Look at the resurfacing of Green Lane a few weeks back. Nobody in his or her right mind could have objected to that. It was well publicised with diversion signs were all over the show and yet one person made a complete and utter song and dance over the precise times the road was opened and closed. I think some people must have such a boring existence that they feel the need to complain whenever the slightest opportunity arises.

 

Bill :)

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These works were identified

 

NRSWA Coordination Meeting - 1st September 2010 National Grid Gas BT

Schedule of Works - Local Authority and Statutory Undertakings (source WBC web site)

 

WBC Woolston Grange Avenue Woolston B5210 42203875 Longbarn Boulevard Toucan Crossing Prop 01-Jan-11 31-Mar-11 Brian Coupe 01925 442532

 

This implies that one toucan crossing was to be imposed and that this would have been completed by March 2011.

 

It is so late that the real reason for the crossing is lost. Surelky there should be a restart?

 

Or is this yet another attaqcvk on motor traffic?

o

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Wahl there are a lot of inacuracies with the Guardian Article.

 

I did issue a press statement on the 26th September which was not used by the media it read

 

Press Release – Longbarn Consultation – new crossings – 26th September

 

Over the last couple of years Longbarn has been overlooked especially with regard to planning applications, closure of their primary school, issues around waste bins and landscaping. Some of these have or are being addressed but a new one has reared its head during the last few weeks.

 

Local resident noticed a planning note that had appeared on a Harpers road lamppost a month or so ago. Work was about to start on 2 new pedestrian crossings at the start of September. The neighbours felt strongly about this and circulated a letter to alert residents and Councillor Settle.

 

The councillor set about talking to local residents and met with the WBC Traffic Management Team. The officers were very forthcoming and produced a 6-page letter that contained a history of the proposals and answers to 14 questions raised by the local residents. They provided 350 copies for Cllr Settle that he delivered to Longbarn residents living at the Woolston Grange Avenue end of Harpers road.

 

Cllr Settle said ‘as a relatively new councillor I wanted to find out for myself and let people know what had gone on and why. In essence the new Zebra Crossing on Harpers Road and Toucan on Woolston Grange Avenue are being constructed as part of an agreed travel plan produced back in 2006. It is funded by the builders and designed by the WBC officers to help reduce the number of cars travelling to the new sites. Office workers will be able to use either a shuttle buses from local railway stations or Warrington Borough Transport services. The crossings will provide safe walkways from the bus stops to the Olympic Park Site.’

 

Last week a second meeting was held to discuss the letter with the officers, councillors and 10 residents. At the end of the meeting the residents spokesman said 'Although residents are disappointed that they were unable to stop the two crossings (and there is very strong feeling on the matter) they have got an undertaking from the WBC Officers that steps will start immediately to have Harpers Road made access only (will take about 3 months). We understand that this will have to have the support of the Police (enforcement) but residents are quite prepared to "police" it themselves - several volunteers already - and report misdemeanours to the Police’.

 

Cllr Settle is grateful for everyone’s involvement. ‘It has been hard work for all but I hope that residents feel better informed as a consequence and been able to get concessions that will ease the traffic issues along Harpers Road

 

Having said the above there are a lot of residents who do not object to the work and are very supportive, especially those with children, buggies, bike, disabled etc who will benefit from the Toucan Crossing - the pink bridge is too steep

 

I have been doing street surgeries since the work began to gauge reaction and I get conflicting views - those opposed to the work do so in the context of traffic flow, pedestrians welcome the development.

 

Far too many motorists use Harpers Road as a rat run.

 

The whole history leading up to the new crossings is shrowded in planning applications and apparent lack of notification going back to 2006 - all this was captured in the 6-page report not leaflet mentioned above. The report came out of a 90 minute meeting. I simply wanted the people of Longbarn to read about the history of the crossings so that they could make an informed decision.

 

A third residents/officer meeting is to take place on the 3rd November to comment on the progress to date.

 

Hope this helps 8)

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blimey.... if so many people seem to be moaning about having crossings installed; imagine the outcry if they were to take one away......

 

as for the term "rat-run" as a driver, I find it is an objectionable term as it implies that motorists who decide to drive their perfectly legal, taxed and insured vehicles along perfectly accessible roads are doing so illegally.

 

Anyone who pays road tax can travel down any road they wish; provided they adhere to the speed limits, don't run anyone over and that those roads do not have restrictions placed on them in which case they can't....

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What the residents are concerned about are the 800 workers in an office block with car parking for a fraction of that number. The pelican crossing now being built across Woolston Grange Avenue will give access to Harpers Road and the Longbarn estate allowing the workers who can't park their cars in the official car park to park in the surrounding roads. The official line is that a large number of the workers will travel by train to Padgate station and then use the bus to travel to the new zebra and pelican crossings.

Also the Pelican crossing is being built within 25 yards of a roundabout on one of the busiest roads in the area. A recipe for traffic chaos.

You must wonder why the buses can’t travel across the roundabout and deliver the passengers safely onto Longbarn Boulevard complex rather than dropping them at the end of Harpers Road to then cross Woolston Grange Avenue on foot.

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What the residents are concerned about are the 800 workers in an office block with car parking for a fraction of that number. The pelican crossing now being built across Woolston Grange Avenue will give access to Harpers Road and the Longbarn estate allowing the workers who can't park their cars in the official car park to park in the surrounding roads. The official line is that a large number of the workers will travel by train to Padgate station and then use the bus to travel to the new zebra and pelican crossings.

Also the Pelican crossing is being built within 25 yards of a roundabout on one of the busiest roads in the area. A recipe for traffic chaos.

You must wonder why the buses can’t travel across the roundabout and deliver the passengers safely onto Longbarn Boulevard complex rather than dropping them at the end of Harpers Road to then cross Woolston Grange Avenue on foot.

 

I'm puzzled why would either crossing cause the traffic queue to get longer & where is the proof that a bus can't get across the round-a-bout?

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I'm puzzled why would either crossing cause the traffic queue to get longer & where is the proof that a bus can't get across the round-a-bout?

Sorry Geoff, perhaps I did not make myself clear.

I am suggesting that it would be better if the bus service did cross the roundabout. Dropping the passengers in the Longbarn Boulevard complex would reduce the number of pedestrians needing to use the pelican crossing at Woolston Grange Avenue.

It has been suggested that the service will be a shuttle bus and will have to go round the roundabout anyway to complete its return journey.

 

Secondly the introduction of a pelican crossing just after the Woolsten Grange Avenue /Harpers Road roundabout will cause traffic to back up on the roundabout itself. At present it can be difficult enough to get onto the roundabout from Harpers Road due to stationary/slow moving traffic, without the complication of a traffic light operated crossing further hindering traffic flow heading towards the College place roundabout.

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Got to say that Long Johns take on the situation makes a lot more sense than what the council said on the news page. Having read that, I take back everything I said in my earlier posts about some people would moan about anything.

 

If the employment area is just over Woolston Grange Road and there’s insufficient parking then it’s obvious that people will park on the estate’s roads. The council report said the employment area was in Orford so to me, that looks like a deliberate attempt to mislead the people.

 

Bill :)

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Talk about confusing.....

 

Fugs/Bill, maybe the other news site just got their report wrong as per usual and quoted 'Orford Park' when they meant somewhere else. Wouldn't be the first time they have got their facts wrong and not reported correctly..

 

.. but then again !?!

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It isn't illegal to park anywhere that doesn't have restrictions in force.... Get the council to put residents only restrictyions in and that would solve the issue surely?

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Talk about confusing.....

 

Fugs/Bill, maybe the other news site just got their report wrong as per usual and quoted 'Orford Park' when they meant somewhere else. Wouldn't be the first time they have got their facts wrong and not reported correctly..

 

.. but then again !?!

 

As I wrote above the report was full of errors - you shouldn't believe all you read in the press DIZZY :rolleyes: - it should have read 'OLYMPIC' not orford.

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At least they got the first letter correct then which is something :lol:

 

Now did I mean the Council or the 'others'... ooops kettles just boiled gotta dash 8)

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Surely the actions are illegal now? and surely the work should stop until the merits have been properly evaluated especially as it will affect traffic flow in this area very severely?

 

Whal - Why is the action illegal and Who would be best qualified to assess the impact on traffic flow?

 

I only ask because as you are an experienced champion of motorists rights.

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Geof firstly Harpers road is NOT a "rat run".

It is a perfectly legal route for vehicular traffic.

 

Secondly according to WBC own web site, all the work should have been completed by March 2011.

It was not, and therefore should be reviewed as to the need and priority as the "sell by " date has been exceeded.

 

The work will almost certainly affect the traffic flow along Woolston Grange Avenue, andf hence adjoining roads. Indeed, if the workers at the offices have to "park and ride" or travel by train, then parking at or near Harpers Avenue will almost certainly increase.

The cloud cuckoo ideology of the traffic management in believing that people will use public transport - especially when the cost and frequency of such transport is not to be relied upon,is in need of review. Watching the negligible uptake on the costly and intrusive cycle lanes throughout Warrington proves that this ideology is not working.

 

The poor management of this scheme causes me concern as it now appears that no traffic evaluation has taken place to estimate the possible disruption to traffic flow etc. Little concern or thought seems to have been given to the through traffic that will be affected by the additional traffic obstructions.

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Geof firstly Harpers road is NOT a "rat run".

 

That depends on which residents you speak to.

 

It is a perfectly legal route for vehicular traffic.

Not for 7.5 tonne vehicles unless they are delivering and require access.

 

Secondly according to WBC own web site, all the work should have been completed by March 2011.

It was not, and therefore should be reviewed as to the need and priority as the "sell by " date has been exceeded.

 

The residents got the start date delayed until a meeting had been held to discuss the outcome.

 

The work will almost certainly affect the traffic flow along Woolston Grange Avenue, andf hence adjoining roads. Indeed, if the workers at the offices have to "park and ride" or travel by train, then parking at or near Harpers Avenue will almost certainly increase.

 

It may – traffic census reviewing parking in the closes of Longbarn will be done before and after the offices open and reference to the company travel plans will be made to see if their workers are adhering to the terms proposals.

 

The cloud cuckoo ideology of the traffic management in believing that people will use public transport - especially when the cost and frequency of such transport is not to be relied upon,is in need of review. Watching the negligible uptake on the costly and intrusive cycle lanes throughout Warrington proves that this ideology is not working.

 

Maybe but the travel plans include the provision of a new shuttle bus to facilitate the process – if this does not work then perhaps a parking permit scheme will need to be looked at.

 

The poor management of this scheme causes me concern as it now appears that no traffic evaluation has taken place to estimate the possible disruption to traffic flow etc. Little concern or thought seems to have been given to the through traffic that will be affected by the additional traffic obstructions

 

Is that a fact or is it that you haven’t found any evidence?

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Quotes Geoff;- "....part of an agreed travel plan produced back in 2006..."

 

"Is that a fact or is it that you haven’t found any evidence?"

 

:rolleyes::lol: Will there actually be any evidence - or is this another case for the Ombudsman? :wacko:

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An oblique observation to all of this, if the powers that be are so keen to get people using buses to get to work, why are there no buses serving the industrial areas off Woolston Grange Avenue?

 

Having thought about that, it's probably a rhetorical question.

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geof you are being petty.

 

Which residents consider a main road as a rat run?

The works are as advertised on the Warrington Council website.

The fact that the web owner cannot be bothered to update the changes merely illustrates another area of incompetence in the traffic management. What is the point of ""information" that is over 12 months out of date?

 

I note that all the "actions" you quote are to perhaps take place after occupation. Why are they not thought out before occupation or even before someone gave planning permission.

 

As the work is well under way now, the only thing that can be done is to sit and watch and then see what remedial action is taken.

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geof you are being petty.

 

Which residents consider a main road as a rat run?

 

No I'm not being petty.

 

I’ve put a lot of time and effort into this issue. I have knocked on all doors in Anderson, Blackburne, Burnett, Sorrel, Sage, Lovage and most of Freshfield and the vast majority consider that the traffic passing down Harpers Road is by people who are using it as a shortcut – when they should be using the expressway. One morning whilst walking for my train at Padgate Station I stopped at the primary school at counted 40 cars in one minute turning into Harpers Road.

 

The works are as advertised on the Warrington Council website.

The fact that the web owner cannot be bothered to update the changes merely illustrates another area of incompetence in the traffic management. What is the point of ""information" that is over 12 months out of date?

 

This should be changed to reflect what has happened since then – the work didn’t go ahead on time for the reasons I gave above – it was held up because of local residents concerns – and a meeting was held to discuss the issues with them.

 

I note that all the "actions" you quote are to perhaps take place after occupation. Why are they not thought out before occupation or even before someone gave planning permission.

 

The travel plan was muted back I believe in 2006.

 

As the work is well under way now, the only thing that can be done is to sit and watch and then see what remedial action is taken.

 

There is another letter being sent out tomorrow to update local residents – it contains an invite to Fearnhead Community Centre at 6pm and the 3rd November so that people can comment further on the work carried out and plans for the future.

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why should they use the "expressway" when theycan use a better road? Perhaps the "expressdway" is not really an "expressway" to these cars. Perhaps you want all cars to use "expressways" rather than the road system. Surely the point of having roads is for traffic to use them as the way of travelling. The "expressway" is really a means for traffic to get to Birchwood at least it was intended as this when it was constructed albeit with the curtaillment caused by the government of the time. But thats another story

 

I am glad you agree the WBC web data should be corrected. Perhaps you could ask the engineer to do so?

 

I cant decide whether its a bit late for comments or a bit early to see what happens. Why not invite all the drivers who use the roads too?

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Wahl.... I agree with your comments about road usage.... unless the roads are deemed as being of restricted access, there is no reason why any vehicle that pays the required road tax should not use them. The fact that residents consider it a "rat run" is of no consequence.

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