observer 624 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 If folk are too poor to afford energy bills, and assuming their poverty qualifies them for benefits; would it be better for the Gov to subsidise the suppliers rather than giving folk money that could be spent on other things? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dizzy 405 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I guess part of that question may relate to the 'Winer Fuel Payments' that are being sent out too Obs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
asperity 828 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 The answer to the question is obviously for the government to abandon immediately the absolutely ridiculous "fight against climate change" which is the main cause of the rapid increase in fuel prices (look up renewable fuel obligation). Climate changes, we can't do anything about it, live with it. Start fracking!! :wink: :wink: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cleopatra 93 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 What's fracking? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
asperity 828 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Where have you been Cleo?? Fracking is the means by which we are going to release trillions of cubic metres of natural gas from deep shale formations in various parts of the UK. So long as the government stops listening to the green loonies we will have guaranteed energy supply for at least a couple of hundred years. Google is a wonderful resource BTW :wink: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fugtifino 67 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 What's fracking? Â A bit like getting blood out of a stone. Â It would buy us some time, but it's very costly and a bit planet rapey: at some point we're all going to have to figure a way to live without fossil fuels. Â Basic pros and cons here: Â http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/23/fracking-gas-environment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cleopatra 93 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Where have you been Cleo?? Fracking is the means by which we are going to release trillions of cubic metres of natural gas from deep shale formations in various parts of the UK. So long as the government stops listening to the green loonies we will have guaranteed energy supply for at least a couple of hundred years. Google is a wonderful resource BTW :wink: Â Not as exciting as I was thinking it was then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 227 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Well if fracking’s doesn’t work then I could think of some better ways of keeping warm.  I don’t buy into your argument Observer. Your assumption seems to be that if you give someone in fuel poverty say £5 extra towards their fuel, then they’ll probably buy a packet of fags with the money. But if you reduced their fuel cost by £5 they’d still have £5 extra at the end of the week and so could still buy a packet of fags.  The problem as I see it is that the cost of fuel is just too bloody high and as asperity rightly says, a lot of that cost is directly due to those involved in climate change. If the gas reserves under the Fyld coast are to be believed, then it gives us 100 years of breathing space and who knows what other solutions we’re going to come across during that time.  Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cleopatra 93 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Bill, I quite like you. You talk a lot of sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bazj 503 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Bill, I quite like you. You talk a lot of sense. Â Quote Link to post Share on other sites
observer 624 Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 No Bill, if you give "the poor" £5s worth of heat, they stay warm; if you give them cash it can be spent on other things; this arguement could apply to other benefits too. As for energy bills generally, it might help if the Gov provided a free insulation programme for ALL properties, thus reducing consumption and bills. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 227 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Cleo I agree with you 100%  No that’s still not right Observer. You can’t give energy out like it’s a food parcel and neither can you control how much or how little a family chooses to use. Because we live in a free society without energy rationing it’s up to the individual to heat or eat as the saying goes and as long as that’s the case, the packet of fags remains in the equation.  Even if you did give out the free insulation, it could still be argued that that would reduce the fuel bill again leaving more money for the cigs. It’s a no win situation just as long as there’s a choice involved.  Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wireboy 5 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Maybe with the way things are going, people will re-open there chimneys. I know Warrington is a smokeless zone but people are being priced out of gas. If people start doing that (and I think they will) it will have the opposite effect to the green targets. People need to keep warm and if they cannot afford the legal way, they will do it the illegal way. Â Burning logs or scrap timber is a lot cheaper and you can buy wood burners now that can be used in smokeless zones. As long as you have a ready cheap/free supply of wood you can keep warm and give the middle finger to the energy companies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
observer 624 Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 No one's "rationing" energy Bill; folk in the "fuel poverty" bracket would simply have lower bills than otherwise, due to the Gov discount - simples. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inky pete 91 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 If you give a large monopoloy corporation £5, they'll probably spend it on bonuses, waste and inefficiency.  How is that going to help anyone in "fuel poverty". (BTW, I don't believe that ANYONE in this country actually can't afford to stay warm - it's all about choices and people need to be left alone to make chouces of their own).  Scrap the Green taxes (never understood how forcing us into pouring more money into the Treasury somehow removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere)and we'll all be able to afford to insulate properly - IF we so choose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lt Kije 99 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I would not like to live any where near where fracking is taking place, their has been big problems with it in the United States, something is not right when you can set water out of your tap on fire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
asperity 828 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 You will believe any propaganda Lt Kije :wink: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter T 62 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 No Bill, if you give "the poor" £5s worth of heat, they stay warm; if you give them cash it can be spent on other things; this arguement could apply to other benefits too. As for energy bills generally, it might help if the Gov provided a free insulation programme for ALL properties, thus reducing consumption and bills.  Those on benefit get it free. And I would have thought that all newish houses are wall and loft insulated anyway.  Perhaps solar panels are the answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter T 62 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I would not like to live any where near where fracking is taking place, their has been big problems with it in the United States, something is not right when you can set water out of your tap on fire   Think of the money you would save by not having to boil the kettle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
asperity 828 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I would not like to live any where near where fracking is taking place, their has been big problems with it in the United States, something is not right when you can set water out of your tap on fire  A bit of light reading:  Gasland Quote Link to post Share on other sites
observer 624 Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 You mean we havn't got six "private" energy companies Inky, all in furious "competition" with each other, to keep prices down for the customer?! If we've got a cartel, we may as well re-nationalise them! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wireboy 5 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Maybe re-nationalisation is the answer. Something needs to be done, as it will only get worse under the current system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
observer 624 Posted October 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 It's all smoke and mirrors in any case; same gas, coming through the same pipes; may as well nationalise it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
asperity 828 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 It worked really well last time eh :roll: :roll: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lt Kije 99 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Your light reading Asp, comes from the people doing the fracking, As you say don't believe the propaganda. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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