EU Referendum -

[observer]

She seems to wear the trousers all the time!

[Bazj]

Seventy one years ago Britain found itself outside of a two speed Europe. Over the channel a German Chancellor was busy making the neighbours play by German rules.

 

Seventy one years later Britain finds itself again outside of a two speed Europe, with a German Chancellor busy making the neighbours play by German rules.

 

I hope it turns out better this time...

[Peter T]

You little islander. You don't understand about Europe?

 

I say let the frogs and krauts get into bed together and the rest of us can go back to being normal independent countries.

[Lt Kije]

After your post Peter, I think he sussed you about right Peter

[Bazj]

Not at all.... merkel is the new Hitler only in a political form instead of the duictator form of her predecessor.... Sarcastic is the little lap dog collaboration monkey that is typical of the French political classes.....

 

Together they want to rule Europe and they want to Punish any country that stands in their way.... Greece is first, Italy will be the next and then Spain etc.... up until they get their way, Germany and France will protect their Euro Empire at all costs

[Lt Kije]

How are they punishing Greese

[asperity]

Please please please please STOP misspelling GREECE Lt Kije. You're doing my head in :evil: :evil:

[Lt Kije]

Predictive text,

[asperity]

What make of phone do you have? My Nokia predictve text accepts Greece but rejects Greese out of hand (probably because the word does not exist outside of your world) :wink: :wink:

[Lt Kije]

HTC,

 

My daughter turned it off for me for a while, then I had to reset it, never got round to getting her to turn it off again

[Bazj]

They are punishing Greece because they are dictating how and with who in charge Greece will function as a future state.

 

Papandreou called a referendum.... Germany and France did not like that and made it very clear that this is the EU and not a democracy and that referendums were not allowed in case they gave the answer that the people wanted and not what the politicians from Germany and France wanted..... The referendum was cancelled and poor old George is now on borrowed time after being forced into setting up a coalition before having to pack up altogether....

 

Democracy my arse as that bloke from the Royal Family would say!

[Lt Kije]

The IMF, the world bank,The Americans, the Chinese, don't want the Greeks to have a referendum at the moment Baz, yet you pick on the EU, do you not think you are being slightly biased.

[Bazj]

The others may well not want Greece to hold a referendum....more than likely to protect their own positions. The EU and the eurozone is ultimately responsible however as they are the ones which allowed Greece in in the first place and now will not let them quietly slip away because they are scared that their tactics may come back to haunt them....

 

If Greece were to leave the euro and then make a better job of things on their own; it would send a message to all the other southern European countries that there is life outside and the collapse would be imminent

[Lt Kije]

Greece is ultimately responsible Baz, as it was themselves that cooked their own books as to fit the criteria to get in :!:

[observer]

Who's responsible for failed debt - the borrower or the lender? The EU has been gagging to get each and every poverty stricken and corrupt two bit State into the EU over the years, each with their begging bowls at the ready for the handouts provided by the net contributors. Then they're suprised when these States fail to exercise the fiscal diciplines necessary to keep up with a common currency. The only way a fiscal Union can work, is by preceding it with a political Union, which will now be the next step - further political integration - the EU super-State. So, time for ordinary people to decide, whether they want IN or OUT.

[Bazj]

Greece is ultimately responsible Baz, as it was themselves that cooked their own books as to fit the criteria to get in :!:

 

so you are saying that some Greek bloke came along and said...

 

[Greek Bloke] "hello everybody peeps...... my name is stavros innit..... Greese has been selling stacks ov da fetta and selling loads of da cheep holidays in the sun innit and would likea to joina da euro innit...."

 

[German Bloke] "Ov course you may join ze euro.... but first zere are some sings you must do...."

 

[small French Bloke] "Leesen very carefully.... He vill say zis only once"

 

[German Bloke] "you must have ze stable ekonomy and you better not tell us any ov ze porky pies or try to keep anysink from us.... ve hav vays of making you talk"

 

[Greek Bloke] " hey would I tella da fibs just to get in da euro and get alla dat free cash from Britain innit?..... we are rollin inna da cash!!"

 

[small French Bloke] "OK..... you are in....just sign zis document which takes all ov za rights from your voters....."

[Lt Kije]

Greece cooked it books to get in, Europe is responsible for not checking properly. They are now paying for that by providing most of the bale out money. But it is the Greeks who are most to blame. You keep saying they were doing fine before they joined the EU, why then were they so eager to get in, the same applies for the single currency why were they so eager to get in it. To the extent that they cooked their books, Your agruement that they were doing fine just does no hold up does it.

[Bazj]

Kije.... if you as an individual were "doing fine" but I came along and offered you riches beyond your wildest dreams on condition you say joined the Warrington Town Supporters Club.... and wore their shirt on every third Wednesday....would you turn me down?

 

Of course not...just as Greece didn't turn down all that lovely free cash from the other european countries.... trouble is, when they started letting other poor countries in like Poland and Estonia, the Greek gravy train came to an end and they then had to fund all the extra stuff that Europe used to...they couldn't do it, ran out of cash and found themselves in the mess they are in now.

 

....and why do you think that Europe didn't check their books?

 

a) Europe is totally incompetant

b ) They didn't want to refuse Greece entry so they could continue with their master plan

or

c) all of the above!

[Lt Kije]

As I said its Germany and France that are paying for that mistake, But do not loose sight that the Greeks cooked their books. Ultimately they are responsible for their own mess.

[Bazj]

now we have pledged more cash to the IMF....but not the eurozone, but the IMF will just hand it to the eurozone.... corrupt??? you better believe it!

[Lt Kije]

And by paying the IMF Baz we are protecting British banks that lent money to Greese,

[observer]

So aside from baling out the Banks directly, we're now baling them out indirectly (via the IMF) - wonder when/if the British taxpayer will ever get his money back?

[Lt Kije]

Don't tell me you didn't know Obs

[observer]

I'm taking your word for it, yet another reason to get out of the whole EU mess!

[Lt Kije]

Just heard on the news, that the UK, is insisting that the extra money they are giving to the IMF, cannot be used for Europe