Evil Sid Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 So for the sake of pedantry, explain to me how speed was a factor in causing my accident? Had both cars been stationary then there would have been no accident. Had both cars been travelling in the same direction at the same rate of motion be it inches per hour or miles per hour the relative "speed" between the two vehicles would be 0. If one car is stationary or moving at a slower rate than the car behind then eventually a collision will occur as the relative distance between the two vehicles decreases until contact occurs, that is unless the car in front increases the rate of motion or the car behind decreases their rate of motion. (or as in your case been reversed into) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Hate to be pedantic Fats BUT; speed = motion. Again for the last time hopefully Pierre; I'm suggesting "too fast and too close for the prevailing road/weather conditions" - just take a look from that M/Way bridge on a fairly busy day, and tell me if the spacing between vehicles is adequate for the speeds they are doing; then just imagine how fog,snow,ice or rain (or even smoke) exacerbates the danger. You can have a situation where folk are literally driving on the tail lights in front of them, cos that's about all they can see; if these lights suddenly brighten up (brake lights), they brake too, but the domino effect ripples down the queue, until a shunt occurs, then another and another etc etc. In thick fog, or driving rain, it may not even be possible to see the tail lights in front until the last second, making it even worse. Patchy fog or even morning mists can cause a sudden loss of vision, but assuming the M/Way warning signs were being used, and traffic warnings had been issued on the radio, more cautious speeds and distancing would be adopted by drivers. :-? After umpteen posts, you have finally analysed things correctly. However, STOP "assuming" that warnings were given, and the drivers knew what the conditions were like, other than normal. Because IF conditions had been normal, the pile-up wouldn't have happened or been so bad. And I would also suggest, that drivers are a lot better behaved these days, and maintain a two car gap, than they used to be, and the tail-gating doesn't happen very often. The bottom line is, that we don't know what caused the problem maybe someone had a heart attack, so blaming it all on speed could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thanx Sid, you covered that one adequately methinks! "Tailgating doesn't happen very often"? - now I know you don't get out very often! Whats this "two car gap", the distance required between vehicles depends on the road speed, and they are (or used to be) covered in the Highway Code (thinking distance plus stopping distance etc) As for warnings, I presume the Police still patrol the M/Ways and advise their controls on conditions, who in turn ammend the signage displays and advise the media; if this wasn't the case, then questions need to be asked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 radar guided cruise control...... it's the future!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thanx Sid, you covered that one adequately methinks! "Tailgating doesn't happen very often"? - now I know you don't get out very often! Whats this "two car gap", the distance required between vehicles depends on the road speed, and they are (or used to be) covered in the Highway Code (thinking distance plus stopping distance etc) As for warnings, I presume the Police still patrol the M/Ways and advise their controls on conditions, who in turn ammend the signage displays and advise the media; if this wasn't the case, then questions need to be asked? You obviously don't get out and about on the M6/M5 anymore. And you probably didn't go that far in a Dennis. There are several areas,on the motorways where the hard signs are about keeping your distance of two cars length. The only police you might find these days are special cars that are not marked. It is the practical world you need to think about obs, not the theoretical one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thanx Sid, you covered that one adequately methinks! "Tailgating doesn't happen very often"? - now I know you don't get out very often! Whats this "two car gap", the distance required between vehicles depends on the road speed, and they are (or used to be) covered in the Highway Code (thinking distance plus stopping distance etc) As for warnings, I presume the Police still patrol the M/Ways and advise their controls on conditions, who in turn ammend the signage displays and advise the media; if this wasn't the case, then questions need to be asked? You obviously don't get out and about on the M6/M5 anymore. And you probably didn't go that far in a Dennis. There are several areas,on the motorways where the hard signs are about keeping your distance of two cars length. The only police you might find these days are special cars that are not marked. It is the practical world you need to think about obs, not the theoretical one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Must have missed those signs due to the fog, having (as you suspect) driven in it, probably more times than you've had hot dinners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Had both cars been stationary then there would have been no accident. Had both cars been travelling in the same direction at the same rate of motion be it inches per hour or miles per hour the relative "speed" between the two vehicles would be 0. If one car is stationary or moving at a slower rate than the car behind then eventually a collision will occur as the relative distance between the two vehicles decreases until contact occurs, that is unless the car in front increases the rate of motion or the car behind decreases their rate of motion. (or as in your case been reversed into) Yes, speed was required to cause an accident, speed however was not a factor in the accident, which is what observer tries to claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 OK there is only one thing that causes accidents. PEOPLE There are only two causes of accidents. PEOPLE doing something they should not and PEOPLE NOT doing something they should. anything else is mere quibbling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 To keep this never ending thread going - and being pedantic once again - are what we are talking about accidents or incidents. When caused by people they are usually the latter. Wind blowing slates onto your car would be real accidents. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Wind blowing slates onto your car would be real accidents. Probably due to the second cause E.G. somebody not having their roof checked for loose slates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Probably due to the second cause E.G. somebody not having their roof checked for loose slates Beluieve it or not that happened to me when I had my first car.... a mini. I had parked it under the car port at mum and dads and the wind did blow two ridge tiles off in a storm and they dropped through the plastic roof sheets and one went straight through the bonnet!! Insurance paid out then.... but then in those days even insurance companies had a bit of honour and paid out unlike today where they will look for every opportunity to get out of paying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 What speed was the roof tile travelling at?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 What speed was the roof tile travelling at?! don't know, but it made a bloody big dent!! Another accident I had was at the garage on the corner of Hawleys lane..... I was working on Kelloggs at the time and was doing a day release course to the tech college. One day, on my day off, I was going back to college after having dinner at home in Bewsey and I pulled into the garage in my mini to get some fags....disgusting habit and thankfully an ex one of mine.... Anyway, I don't know if many remember, but it was a mobil garage then and the layout was terrible and no where near as good as today. Anyway, I pulled into the garage behind a workmate of mine in a works van (we used to fill them up there back in the day on account) anyway, I pulls up behind him but with at least half of my mini visable in his side mirrors. Now my mini was very easily recognisable as it had 4 great big spotlights on the front and having worked for Howley Racing when I first left school, it had a big bore engine (1360cc) and huge wide wheels... Anyway, I'm sat there when suddenly the reversing lights come on on the van and I thinks he has seen it is me and is messing about.... Suddenly, the van lurches back and slams into my poor statiobnary little mini.... new front wing, wheel, grille, front panel.... He said he didn't see me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I had a roof tile come off my house one time and it hit the bonnet corner first and went right through to the engine compartment. Managed to get it all sorted for free at the taxi company I was working at because they had their own workshops with spraying facilities. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 An accident is an unforeseen happening, whilst an incident is what the police give you a number for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Well I wonder if this has anything to do with the planned increase: Dutch increase :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Surely not Asp, the Government wouldn't do that, would they? That would just be cynical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Well that nice Mr Osbourne seems to be too much of a gentleman, but all the same..................... :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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