observer Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Well Parliament is being recalled from hols to debate "the riots". Already, Harrodan Harmmer and the Labour luvvies are trying to link this outburst of criminality with youth unemployment, Uni fees, and the cuts generally. What is apparent, is that these events took place in the most deprived areas of cities and towns, with derilict urban landscapes, now trashed and made even worse by these ill educated morons. But hang on a minute; havn't most of these neanderthals been born and raised during the Watch of the previous LABOUR Government? But no doubt, the causes are manifold, go back decades and involve all Parties in attempts at social engineering. So now begins the blame game by the politicians, who will fiddle while Rome burns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlady54 Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 When the priveleged such as the young man imprisoned for his antics on the Cenotaph are defended by parents, what hope is there for the feral underclass which is running riot in the capital? In today's Mail, a lady journalist said she had researched the number of Apprenticeships available now in the Tottenham area and this amounted to several hundred of differing kinds. These were good placements, part paid training in a workplace, garage or something similar and part at a college to gain a qualification. It would seem that the young men and women in London are not interested in these as they earn more on benefits. This is what needs to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Well the few zombies that have been interviewed on TV, appear to be straight out of an episode of "Shameless" - thick as pig s**t. However, there was one gem of thought offered by one - which basically suggests that they were taking the example of greed set by the Bankers and MPs - and just "taking" what they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlady54 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 It's so easy to put the blame on the bankers and MPs. A majority of us probably agree that what bankers and MPs did and still do was greedy and illegal in many cases, but a majority of us didn't go out looting, because we had enough sense and conscience to know it was wrong! When you listen to the inarticulate young people trying to defend their actions, it is no wonder they can't find jobs, no-one would employ them and that is the fault of the liberal education system which doesn't equip people for work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I was only thinking of "Shameless" as a comparrison the other day Obs. Yet we tend to laugh or think of the thieving antics of the programme charactors as funny or good entertainment. Yet in reality it is quite the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 SL, criminal activity by the rich and powerfull has never had the same level of retribution meated out as with the peasants; for one thing, the rich can afford justice for a start. Whilst two wrongs don't make a right; those at the top should be setting an example; but the example they've set is one of greed and corruption - can't recall any Banker being prosecuted and only a token bunch of MPs have been tried and convicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlady54 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 SL, criminal activity by the rich and powerfull has never had the same level of retribution meated out as with the peasants; for one thing, the rich can afford justice for a start. Whilst two wrongs don't make a right; those at the top should be setting an example; but the example they've set is one of greed and corruption - can't recall any Banker being prosecuted and only a token bunch of MPs have been tried and convicted. I agree, but that has always been the case, and it will probably never change however much we would like it to! I think the only time MPs weren't in it for themselves was when they were people who funded themselves because they wanted to do something worthwhile for their country and could afford it. In the case of bankers, when the pursuit of profit replaced service to the small customer, there was no looking back! Perhaps we should return to all councillors being volunteers and funding themselves. It would save us a packet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I noticed some Countries have banned "short selling" on their stock exchanges, as this blatant gambling, is distorting markets and their economies - but wasn't that ever the case? Such folk are basically imo, greed sodden criminals operating within an accepted legal framework - no better than the looters. MPs: we just had Parliament recalled, to listen to the PM give a two hour speach on the riots and to offer their own bleatings - none of which resulted in a decision or any laws being passed - the PM could just as easily made his statement on TV. And the taxpayer will pay for the privilage of interupting this break in the over long holidays of MPs with extra expenses - so their fingers in the till again! As for politicians generally, in a modern society of specialisation, we have consigned the thinking and law making to them, with the periodic participation of the people at the ballot box. We have the highest per capita number of politicians in the World - so perhaps some cost saving redundancies could help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Most other systems Obs, base the amount of politicians and constituencies on population density, ie The constituencies are where the most population is and with the rural population tagged on, if you did that here you would wipe out the Tories and most of the liberal Mps over night. Our system grew out of only gentlemen could vote, and they all had stately Piles out side of towns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Not quite - the Boundary Commission is tasked with reviewing elector ratios, although wide disparities exist, EG. the large number of small Scottish seats, which were Labour till the SNP started to take them! Seems Dave is trying to reduce many inner city constituencies to lose 50 (Lab?!) MPs; but as I've said before, we could chop them by 50% by merging every two into one, and the public wouldn't even notice. However, with first past the post, this would continue Government based on minority support. Therefore, it is now essential to provide a counter-balance by have a reduced House of Lords (Senate) elected directly proportional to the total votes at a Gen Election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 The boundary comission is a wreck, whoever is in power has tried to use it to consolidate their power once elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Correct - it's all about Party politics - not good governance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Obs writes...."there was one gem of thought offered by one - which basically suggests that they were taking the example of greed set by the Bankers and MPs - and just "taking" what they wanted." whilst Silver Lady writes...."It's so easy to put the blame on the bankers and MPs. A majority of us probably agree that what bankers and MPs did and still do was greedy and illegal in many cases" Yes, the reason it's so easy to put the blame on the bankers and MPs is because it's the bankers irresponsibility that has caused the financial crash, the MPs irresponsibility that has led to lack of employment opportunities, declining standards of education, lack of discipline in schools and an increase in deprived areas. Due to their obscene greed, they have been robbing us all blind for years and as Silverlady says they are STILL doing it! If anyone should be classed as "shameless" then it should be them! the sheer scale of their 'looting' far outweighs what the the rioters have done! Whilst I would never condone the violence or the theft done by the rioters, I am not at all surprised that the protests took place. Silverlady says..." but a majority of us didn't go out looting, because we had enough sense and conscience to know it was wrong!" We also do not have to live our lives in sink estates with no prospects and no real hope for a better future! Perhaps that's why we don't feel the anger quite so keenly as them? Silverlady continues....."When you listen to the inarticulate young people trying to defend their actions, it is no wonder they can't find jobs, no-one would employ them and that is the fault of the liberal education system which doesn't equip people for work." That statement shows probably the same type of reasoning as that usual of the bankers or MPs in the typical way the 'articulate' try to defend their actions!....by blaming someone else. I don't think the rioters or looters are any worse than the bankers or the frauding MPs....but they seem to be getting stamped upon a lot quicker and more severly! I think care needs to be taken lest this hypocritical approach produces more anger and ultimately more riots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think one of those greedy MPs got 4 months jail for robbing us of £thousands, and was out after a month. One woman, who was at home asleep during the riots, has just got 5 months for "receiving" stolen goods, a pair of shorts. When the slaves revolt, an example has to be set, surprised they havn't crucified them either side of the M6, as an example to us all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 Sha, I didn't have you down as naive. The rioting had nothing to do with the bankers or the economy. It is down to the erosion of law and order and lack of moral guidance since the 60's. Where there is NO discipline there is anarchy. The trouble makers were organised, and knew that the police wouldn't be able to cope in the first 48 hours. This sort of thing has been brewing for years, as the system doesn't allow adults any control over society. Parents can't chastise their children. Teachers can't discipline their pupils. The police get failed by the courts. Crime, single parent families, law breakers are protected by the state. They have rights. The victims don't. All the hand-wringing making excuses for these louts is ludicrous. Bankers are a totally different subject. If you (or anyone else)were in banking and applied for a job where the remuneration included bonuses, would you refuse to take the position? Unless you have inside information, we only know what is in the newspapers, and at the best of times, what they say has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Personally, I find it totally wrong that they get such large bonuses, but we do vote these politicians in and they seem quite happy to reward failure. (the new British disease). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlady54 Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Peter, thank you for putting it so succinctly! There will be many families on 'sink estates' who did not take part in rioting and looting because they knew it was wrong, equally, there are many criminals who live in the 'leafy suburbs'. Although the numbers being prosecuted seem high, they are still in the minority when compared to the vast number of law abiding people in our country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 .. and who's set the boundaries for this culture of greed, that has permeated every strata of our society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Harold Wilson would be my guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I think the four year sentence for being a numpty on Facebook is a bit severe. I mean, at this rate we'll end up living in one of those draconian dictatorships: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/04/water-fight-pistols-iran-arrests Oh... http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/15/essex-water-fight-blackberry-messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Fug, If we had proper sentences and justice in this country, 4 years for this sort of thing would seem like a let off because we would have 10 years for burglary and proper life (or more preferable; death) for murder..... the only reason it seems harsh is because we have become so soft on every criminal to the point where the plod don't even bother to come out to burglary etc. Apparently they did get off lightly because the maximum sentence for inciting a riot is actually 10 years I would have gone for the 10 and reduced it a bit on appeal....maybe down to 9! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 These sentences will be for short term public consumption, as soon as the riots leave the front page, they'll quietly be released on appeal. Hows about bringing in "chain gangs", with them wearing a label {LOOTER}, to clean up the mess they've made? The Bankers and MPs could be included and would no doubt show them how to make the really big money semi-legally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I bet the lout was a bit shocked and only expected community service and a right telling off. Serves him right. But when you compare his 4 year sentence with the 7 year sentence given to another local lout this week who violently beat his 'friend' to death and left his kids without a dad it makes does tend to make me wonder if the facebook sentence is just to prove a point that they WILL be tough so as to deter others in the future. What sentences have the people who rioted in London and elsewhere been given? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 The press and media are forever "examining" these sentences, much to my annoyance. They will only serve two years anyway and as a warning to others harsher sentences are long overdue. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Wot Baz says. This is what is needed in this country regardless of the Liberal luvvies. IF it gets the message across, brilliant. IF NOT, increase the sentence until it does. ASLLn this hand-wringing about comparisons etc. IF it was their property getting trashed or set on fire, would they be so sympathetic???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 You don't really believe that these sentences will stand do you? They are a knee jerk political response to appease the wider public, and (so they appear to believe) act as a deterent. However, this thirst for retribution on the part of the establishment and general populace, may have been more consistent had it been applied to Bankers and MPs previously. Woe betide the dog that dares to bite it's master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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