harry hayes Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Think we should try and establish (re-establish?) a culture whereby the parents are frightened of being kicked out of their houses. Get some responsibilty back into their lives Unfortunately, I don't think tht will happen because there are usually small children involved. But as has been said before, a little bit of fear must be injected in their lives. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallard12 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Actually Algy it's just the opposite. Most 'rednecks' are country folk who got the name redneck because of the long hours they spent in the sun ploughing. A work associate once told me that when times get hard, the rednecks just hunt a little longer and fish a little harder. Whereas his city dwelling compadres thought no farther than robbing an extra liquor store. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Harry, "respect" can be earned in two ways - through love OR through fear. imo the former is preferable but the later much more effective. So the little chav born of a teenage mother, grows up with his "half" brothers and sisters, with the occasional visits of male role models to sire yet another sprog, in some booze soaked episode. The lone Mum, assuming she cares in the first place, is overwhelmed by the pressures of daily life, trying to bring up her brood on her benefits check (don't forget, she has to pay for her own fags, booze and holidays!), and as young Jonny grows in size, he seeks the company (even love) of his peers, and soon realises that as he's physically bigger than Mum, he can basically dictate to her, rather than the other way round. And God forbid, that Mum or one of the visiting Dads should lay a hand of chastisment on young Jonny; he'd be on the phone to Esther Ranzen and get them arrested. So having surmounted the first hurdle of disrespect, Jonny goes to school, where an equally emascualated teacher is frightened to lay a hand on him on peril of losing his/her job, so no sanctions there; niether an education, even in the basic three Rs.. Until finally, Jonny is out with his mates (gang)engaged in vandalism to relieve his boredom, cos having never cultivated an imagination or any positive aspirations, he gets a buzz from destroying things. Jonny gets arrested by the police and receives "a caution", or even an ASBO - again, no sanctions or boundaries set for him there. So Jonny thinks he can literally do anything - and when a golden opportunity of a riot comes along, he joins in with the rest of the mob, to just take what he would otherwise be denied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Leaving aside the judgemental bits that pretty much sums up what's said here, obs: The competing arguments used to explain the riots http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14483149 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallard12 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 That's it in a nutshell Observer. Nothing more to say. Pity they wouldn't let you stand up in Parliament and read that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted August 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 obs, your last reply on this topic was the most sensible and in my view, factual reply I have read explaining a credible reason for the loutish behavior of these young thugs on our streets who carried out the vicious attacks on public and private properties and are responsible for the death of four innocent men, one who was 68 years old died last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlady54 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I don't think kicking them out of council houses solves anything, legally, they have to be re-housed by someone if they are homeless and have children. There seem to have been a fair number of people who weren't on benefits and weren't housed by the council, so they can't be deprived of their homes can they? Sanctions and punishments must be applied fairly to all the criminals from whatever background, otherwise we end up demonising the 'have nots', and the 'haves' escape with a lesser punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 A very well thought out precis Obs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Obs Utopia is never going to happen though, the way we are going. Every journey starts with the first step. No-one wants people to be thrown out of their houses willy nilly, but it seems to me that the balance is wrong. There appears to be lots of parents, perhaps single mothers, who are happy to draw their benefits each week without fear of any sanctions. After a few evictions of parents of children who are allowed to roam free and commit crime, the word would soon spread and the process of instilling resposibility would begin. i would also like to see parents, (mothers and absentee fathers), hauled before the court on a separate occasion to be given a warning or punishment. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 H, I'm not opposed to seeking real solutions - but each and every action (by Gov) produces reactions and consequences; and thus has to be thought through . The PM has got one thing right - this is about a culture; a culture that has manifold causations, but imo fostered by our tolerant liberal multi-cultural society. Some fundemental questions need to be asked, about the nature and destiny of British society, the establishment of generally accepted norms and standards of behaviour; a full and common understanding of each citizens responsibilties, as well as their rights; and a mutual low tolerance against those who transgress the laws we establish. What is clear, is that it will involve some "State" interventions in "the home" and in family relationships, through social "carrot and stick" engineering measures. For example: should we reward teenage pregnancy with child benefit and a Council House, should we go even further and make abortion mandatory in such cases? How do we break the cycle of re-cycled ignorance, benefit dependency, fecklessness and lack of aspiration? In order to break the cycle, should we seperate (in some cases), children from their biological parents, and establish boarding schools for their re-education? Should marriage be considered the norm, and parenting skills and responsibilities included as preparation? Should we re-inforce parents rights to dicipline and control the behavioural development of their kids? Should we reinforce the authority of teachers and the police to challenge and correct misbehaviour with effective sanctions; rather than succumb to a range of excuses like ADHD with drugs as the remedy? One could go on indefinately, but some food for thought as the debate develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 No discipline in the home, no discipline in school, no discipline by the police, a legal system that is too soft. These people are not taught discipline and morals in their lives so is it any wonder that we are today witnessing the results? So where will they learn discipline? In the army! Bring back, I say, conscription, for girls as well as boys, so they can be taught discipline, tolerance, co-operation skills as well as learn some morals other than those witnessed in the home and school. Then these "hard" little nuts will soon break down and cry for the mummies, as we witnessed in the t.v programm Bad Lads Army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallard12 Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 I think that Observer has finlly given a focus to this discussion. Now, what to do about it? It will take generations to get to where you want to be, so the quicker it's started the better. A few years ago my buddy, Smithy, made a profound statement, he said, "We could have stopped it a few years ago, but not now. We have now had idiots raising idiots, who go on to raise another batch of idiots, for years and now nobody remembers what normal is. Even the policemen are too young to remember what is good and what is bad" A small point to consider. In thirtyfive years in Texas, I have never heard the 'F" word used in a public place. On my last visit to Warrington in 1998, I was standing behind a well dressed young women at Central Sation ticket line, she was toting shopping bags and three young children. Her discusson with the clerk regarding the cost of her travel, comprised of nothing more than an unending stream of 'F" bombs. Her kids were listening intently. A small point, but an indicator of something deeper maybe. Oh, I just went to Advanced Member - I guess I talk to much !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Prayer for the day: Pater noster, qui es in carcerem Vestibulum nescit nomen eius. Bacchatur tuus venit legit in sole, quod est Bremenium in Londinium. Da nobis hodie panem nostrum bonum, et dimitte nobis ASBO scriptor, Ut sapien urna palmis caedebat qui nobis ASBO est adversum nos. Ne nos inferas in usu, sed libera nos habitationem. Rapina Quia tuum est, et ad incendium damno scelus. Omnia saecula saeculorum. non est Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Ey up Stallard12... it's those damn pater nostas again I have no idea what the rest means though asp... sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Just for you Dizzy, a translation Our Father Our father, who art in prison, My mum knows not his name. Thy riots come, read it in The Sun, In Birmingham as it is in London. Give us this day our welfare bread, and forgive us our ASBO's, As we happy slap those who got us our ASBO's against us. Lead us not into employment, but deliver us free housing. For thine is the looting, the arson and criminal damage. For ever and ever. Innit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted August 18, 2011 Report Share Posted August 18, 2011 Thanks and v good (I thought you were talking about lifts ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.