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Geoffrey Settle

Mersey Ports Master Plan

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Sounds like a very good idea but would it be costly to change all the ships/boats ? (I'm never sure what is classed as being a ship and waht is a boat, sorry)

 

Dizz, a boat has one deck a ship has more than one deck, also a ship can carry a boat a boat cannot carry a ship, Asperity may well appear and correct me on this.

 

Not practicable to convert existing barges, new ones would have to be built and here we meet the first problem, ‘Peel’ would not invest in new equipment why should they as all they have to do is swing an existing road bridge they don’t have a problem with holding traffic up.

Regarding narrow boats, obs, it’s a ‘non starter’ they are too small and not able to carry containers you require barges that are capable of carrying 7’-4” high containers stacked four high and would require to be semi-submersible to enable the hull to be sunk into the water to around 20 feet (as mentioned in an earlier post the canal is 28 feet deep) leaving ten feet above the water line.

All hypothetical, I’m sure someone will shoot me down. :wink:

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Trouble is that when members of the council are already hailing this as a good idea..... that blows any viable opposition out of the water (excuse the pun!)

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Geoff, the tides only affect the boats entering and leaving at Liverpool end. Anything in between can be accommodated to work in with the bridges. It just means that they need to make more efficient use of the Port and their planning.

It needs a compromise, NOT dictatorship from Peel Holdings. Remember, when they are arguing their case, their eye is on the money they make charging every boat (20 years ago, I think it was about £3000 just to open a swing bridge. If more boats are going through the £££££££££s are flashing before their eyes. Stuff the motorist. :wink:

 

Hi pete the only point I would take issue with is the impact of the tide. The ships come in at Seaforth near where I used to go to school, but then the cargo has to get transferred and move by the barges to the ship canal. This is the first and I believe significant obstacle - it's all about the scheduling, tide and movement. Again we look to asperity/algy to demistify this issue.

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I thought that MOORE was supposed to be a port? Why can't the changes be made there?

Peter has a point, the new port is west of the Chester road swing bridge so that means the only two swing bridges to be affected are Moore Lane and Old Quay at Runcorn and both these have minimal through traffic, so what is all the 'Huffing & Puffing' about, neither Chester Road at Walton and the A49 at Stockton Heath will be affected, most of the containers will be loaded on to rail locally with a rail connection to the West Coast Main Line. :roll:

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Not necesarily Algy... as far as I am aware the Peel (Warrington) Port plan is all part of the much larger Alantic Gateway Plan of which Liverpool, Manchester and Warrington play an important part ...

 

The Atlantic Gateway area has geographical coherence, with the two

cities of Manchester and Liverpool, connected across a diverse natural

and industrial landscape by both river and canal, as well as by a network

of road, motorway and rail links. This geography also comprises the

Mersey catchment with the obvious benefits which will result in terms

of flood risk mitigation and environmental planning.

 

As a spatial map of England demonstrates, Liverpool and Manchester

are part of a discrete super-urban conurbation.

 

In developing the concept of the Atlantic Gateway, careful consideration

has been given to the role of and relationship between individual city

and town centres, and wider potential development locations. Atlantic

Gateway seeks to reinforce existing settlement hierarchies and growth

patterns, with a clear focus upon:

— Manchester City Centre, including Salford and Trafford Quays;

— Liverpool City Centre, along with Liverpool and Wirral Waters;

— Chester City Centre and Warrington town centre; and

— other town centres across Greater Manchester, Merseyside,

Warrington, Halton and northern parts of East and West Cheshire.

 

Taken from the now NWDA's document here (yes I know the NWDA don't exist anymore but I couldn't remember where the main one was and it's late)

 

http://www.nwda.co.uk/pdf/AG_online.pdf

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I can't help much on containers, I'm a tanker man and have been for the last 30 years. Logistically and economically the use of canals rather than roads is eminently sensible - on the continent a vast amount of freight is carried on the inland waterways - but obviously a lot of work has to be put into the infrastructure before it is viable.

 

I'm not getting involved with the ship/boat argument it's too tiring! Let's just say that a boat as far as the Royal Navy is concerned is a submarine, all other small craft have specific names such as "whaler" "tender" "barge" "skiff" etc. :wink::wink:

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In terms of a new high level bridge, why not use the old railway bridge at Latchford locks. That is high level and I know it is in bad shape and will need a cash injection but it might be cheaper than building a new bridge. Would it be possible to convert an old railway bridge to road? The line hasn't been used since the mid eighties.

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In terms of a new high level bridge, why not use the old railway bridge at Latchford locks. That is high level and I know it is in bad shape and will need a cash injection but it might be cheaper than building a new bridge. Would it be possible to convert an old railway bridge to road? The line hasn't been used since the mid eighties.

 

An idea but wouldn't you have new roads on and off the bridge, this would cost money, it wouldn't be wide enough or strong enough and now has lots of houses and flat either side of it.

 

The cantilever I believe cost over one million pounds recently in maintenance costs.

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front page news yesterday...

 

http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/articles/11254/1/Speak-out-on-canal-expansion-plan/Page1.html

 

Borough Councillor Celia Jordan is urging people to SPEAK OUT on the the canal expansion and she says that Parish councils in the areas likely to be affected are sending a joint response to the canal company's public consultation. Mmmmm Parish Council responses usually amount to nothing anyway.

 

She also says: "It would be helpful if people and organisations also responded so that a real cross-section of opinion can be considered." The address for comments is: Mersey Ports Master Plan Consultation, Maritime Centre, Port of Liverpool, L12 1LA or email merseymasterplan@peelports.co.uk by September 5.

 

Just wondered... but if people write directly to Peel Ports at this stage to voice their concerns (not that I guess many will) how will she or WBC know what concerns/objections/comments have been raised and submitted by local businesses and residents ? What's to stop Peels just saying 'thanks Mr Nobody' and filing them in the bin ?

 

Are WBC putting in a response too and will it be available for us all to read and digest (and maybe even comment on) prior to them sending it in ? After all they are merely our representatives so we should be allowed to read it first

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I worked on the corner of forrest street for many years and i remember that wheh they opened knutsford road bridge on a sunny day, it expanded and they could not close it. the fire brigade would punp water on it to cool it down.

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I've got a conservatory door that I have to do that with, it's a bloody nusience but at least it dosn't jam the traffic.

 

Don't think there's much chance of thaty happeining today :(

 

Bill :)

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And that's the main sticking point the weaknesses of the swing bridges to cope with the increased traffic flow!!! :angry: Peel Holding have to give ground on this and either change their working practices or invest more in the venture.

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