Bazj Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 easy Baz, you are afraid of the Eu because you are afraid the British will be out voted by the continentals, you are afraid of democracy and afraid of being a minority, your not very democratic when it comes down to it So you think we should stay in the EU because it is only fair that we get outvoted by the continentals....... Well you never cease to amaze me with the depths you will sink to justify the EU! And as for calling me un-democratic..... where is our vote on being part of the EU kije? where is the vote we were all promised by all of the main parties? You and your types are the ones who are afraid of democracy because give the chance to vote the people would vote us out of the EU tomorrow. That is why we do not get a vote; just like the votes that were overturned in France Denmark and Ireland.... If that is your idea of democracy I am a missing budgie in Grappenhall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Kije. Naivety at its best. People don't vote because they are fed up with politics and the way the country is run by career politicians. Nothing to do with safe seats. No matter who is in power, it is more of the same self-indulgence and the hell with the country. Changing the voting system won't make an iota of difference, because you will still get more of the same, and it wont get the Lib-Dems elected as a party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Kije and Co, want this, cos it locks into perpetual power the liberal luvvy "centre" of British politics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Make people vote by law, if people don't exercise their rights perhaps the politicians might wake up. Obs why are you against Av Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Make people vote by law, if people don't exercise their rights perhaps the politicians might wake up. Yes. Agreed. That way you won't need AV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 What's the problem? with or without AV we have ended up with a toerag of a coalition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Exactly my thoughts when I said 4 pages back that "it's a bit of a lottery either way". I really do think that people should be made to vote though even if it's just to tick a box which says 'none of the above thank you very much' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Kije - thought my reasons against AV have been adequately laid out in my posts - or can't you read past the last post? But to reiterate - AV is NOT a "proportional" voting system, it is designed to identify "majority" (over 50%) support for ONE candidate.; which means that it will favour the third Party in marginal constituencies. But, it will not affect solid Tory or Labour strongholds, which will still deliver a donkey. It delivers over 50% of those that actually vote NOT over 50% of those entitled to vote, so can still deliver winners who have less than 50% overall support. Basically, it is an attempt to save the LibDems from electoral oblivion at the next election - and give some Labour luvvies a chance in marginals. Ironically, the most "proportional" system currently available is the Party List system used for the EU elections - ironic cos I thought you supported all things EU?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I do Obs, Av is not perfect it is just better than the system we have now, If I could vote for party lists I would do, but it is not so I will make do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Obviously talking to a closed mind on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 When I think of a closed mind or blinkered for that matter your top of the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Wow - and my Dad's bigger than your Dad - yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Is he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 I was having difficulty getting my head around this concept of favouring the third party in marginals so I looked at a very marginal seat Cardiff North (2010) The results were:- Tory 37.5% Labour 37.1% Libdem 18.3% Plaid Cum 3.3% Others 3.8% Taking second preferences from the 7.1% would not give either of the top 2 the 50% required. The Libdems will then be eliminated and their second preferences used to pick a winner from the top 2. So how would that help them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 In that example, it wouldn't - what would tend to happen in that example is that Labour would pick up most of the second preference votes - as the Tories tend to be no one's second preference - hence Millipede and Co are supporting AV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 In that example, it wouldn't - what would tend to happen in that example is that Labour would pick up most of the second preference votes - as the Tories tend to be no one's second preference - hence Millipede and Co are supporting AV. In alot of south west seats and south east seats the tories would get alot of second preferance seats Obs, and Labour would loose out. I would like to know how you came by your opiniun As you are just spouting crap at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Crap or no crap, the public seem to have sussed out this LibDem ruse and opinion is now hardening AGAINST AV! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 How do you know that Obs.... there are a lot of 'public' and surely you don't know them all You'd make a good councillor with statements like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 You'd make a good councillor No..... he really wouldn't!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 merely observing news commenties (that one was on ceefax) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 You'd make a good councillor No..... he really wouldn't!! Well I think he would and at least he enteres into debates and discussions unlike the ones we do have. If he didn't do what we wanted and agree with us I could send him a warning or edit his comments... or we could have him banned for a while and he'd get such massive forum withdrawal symptoms that he would finally agree to our terms and future plans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Only 37% for on the news tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 ... but only 43% against - with 20% who havn't a clue - just hope they don't have a second preference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 would the "I don't have a clue" votes be equally distributed? I really would like to know how they are trying to carry out a referendum on a "fairer" voting system without making everybody vote. Having the "fairer" system decided by 30% of the people who can be bothered to vote (don't forget this is tied in on the same day as local elections - and most people can't be bothered to vote for that anyway) It should be a compulsory vote to ensure maximum attendance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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