Lt Kije Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 A fine post Obs, Baz I could start with Dell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 OK, Dell is a start but they have been in Ireland since 1988 apparetly and never left the UK to go there as they still have a large UK prescence and employ a lot of people down in Bracknell (I have never owned a Dell as I always heard they were crap and they aren't as good as the Jap computers!) try again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 What - Dell Boy economics?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Kije, I don't have a "your lot". I prefer independence of mind and spirit without the need for political guidance like most people. obs. I would suggest that over the last 20 odd years everyone is a lot wealthier and can afford to take their belts in a notch and still be well off. NOT many families/people who don't have mobiles, cable or satellite TV, cars and for those so inclined, holidays abroad. Perhaps you should check out the shopping trollies next time you are in a supermarket. People aren't exactly starving. Still queues at petrol stations, people still smoke and drink.Pass me the tissues. I feel a tear coming on. Reducing their excesses is not life threatening, just a tad annoying. As for the rich getting richer, a lot of it is down to hard work and thrift. Rich people value their money whilst a lot earn just to spend. Of course as always, there are the exceptions. Politicians, bank bosses, sports people, but they aren't the norm. Not as if we have gone back to the thirties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Very well put, Peter - or at least that's how I see it. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Wealth differentials are exactly that, relative - but as any economist will tell you, they've expanded over the last 20 years. If the Government were to cut down on tax avoidance, instead of benefits etc, it's estimated the return could pay off the deficit without the need to cut anything. Just take one example - Mr Greene, advisor to HMG, apparently managed to squirrel away ?124million last year - and the millionaires in the cabinet arn't likely to upset their friends are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 another topic hijacked by the Euromaniacs, what a surprise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 You don't cut off the hand that feeds you obs. Perhaps you want to go back to the days of 98% tax which drove a lot of people abroad. Apart from the legal tax evasures (is that a word?) the rich are bound to get richer because they have more money invested and so their wealth grows. Just WHAT do you want? They're talking of a general Pension. Is that right? Why should everyone be the same? You complain about dumbing down!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egbert Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Oh well..it was worth a try. But it would appear NONE of you can rise above party politics! I don't agree with the politics of some of the people I listed as the great and the good. But I can recognise a great leader when I see one. Trouble is, people's politics seem to be based on what they think a particular party will do for them personally. They are not bothered about the rest of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 "You don't cut off the hand that feeds you" - where's that one come from, pray tell me how some "rich person", having made their fortune through the exploitation of others - "feeds" the peasants. And this myth that's peddled out that "they will all leave the Country" - wow, and you don't think their money "left the Country some time ago" and is resting in an off-shore account? Most of us are peasants through circumstance of birth, sadly some, due to their mind set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 "You don't cut off the hand that feeds you" - where's that one come from, pray tell me how some "rich person", having made their fortune through the exploitation of others - "feeds" the peasants. And this myth that's peddled out that "they will all leave the Country" - wow, and you don't think their money "left the Country some time ago" and is resting in an off-shore account? Most of us are peasants through circumstance of birth, sadly some, due to their mind set. Obs, you have a typical left wing view of rich people I have to say.... I know a chap who has built a business up over the past 15 years (starting with 6 employees) and now employing in the region of 400 plus other sub companies around the UK employing the same amount again. He lives in a big house with a pool and has another massive house being built in Scotland and has the Aston Martin and various others, but is the nicest most generous guy you could meet. I asked him quite recently why he carries on working seeing as how he has more than enough etc...... his answer was that he carries on so that now he can try and provide the chaps who work for him what he himself now has. He employs people in telesales that can earn ?25k a year plus and provides them with modern facilities in his own buildings, not rented places.... don't assume that all people with money act like Bradley Hardacre because that just shows you up as being a jealous lefty who wants everyone to be equal regardless of how much effort they are prepared to put in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I don't - and have said on here before, that I don't regrudge anyone from building up an honest buisiness and reaping the reward. But the type of person you cite is just as much a minnow in the general scheme of things as the rest of us, he'll probably pay most of his taxes for starters. Around 10% of our population own/control 90% of the national wealth, many have been born into the inheritance from ancestors going back to the great plunder of 1066, some have done it at that gambling den called the stock exchange. Such folk can avoid taxes and indeed are estimated to pay less than 10% on average - without an efficient redistributive tax system, their wealth accumulates and the wealth gap just keeps on widening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 "You don't cut off the hand that feeds you" - where's that one come from, pray tell me how some "rich person", having made their fortune through the exploitation of others - "feeds" the peasants. And this myth that's peddled out that "they will all leave the Country" - wow, and you don't think their money "left the Country some time ago" and is resting in an off-shore account? Most of us are peasants through circumstance of birth, sadly some, due to their mind set. obs, get over yourself. All employers make their money through exploitation. They aren't going to employ people and end up losing money. get real. Everyone starts off with nothing, not even any clothes. How man decides to achieve or become a parasite determines whether he lives comfortably or not. Your previous party has a lot to do with 1. increasing the wealth gap, and 2. dumbing society down so that people can't have an equal start is a nonsense, because the cream ALWAYS rises to the top. The jealousy of the working class has to be seen to be believed. I thought you had more about you than that obs. The question is, what do you suggest? get rid of Branson, Dyson, Bill Gates? That will sort things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Wealth differentials are exactly that, relative - but as any economist will tell you, they've expanded over the last 20 years. If the Government were to cut down on tax avoidance, instead of benefits etc, it's estimated the return could pay off the deficit without the need to cut anything. Just take one example - Mr Greene, advisor to HMG, apparently managed to squirrel away ?124million last year - and the millionaires in the cabinet aren't likely to upset their friends are they? So if you were Mr Greene, what would you do? give it to Charity which starts at home? If Rod King can get a 20mph in Warrington, I am sure that you can campaign to stop off shore accounts and tax evasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Don't expect anything from Mr Green, but I would expect something from any Gov claiming that we're "all in it together" to ensure that the broadest backs bare the biggest load - highly unlikely from a cabinet of millionaires now, is it? Niether would I expect anything from a so called socialist Party, that had the opportunity for redistributive tax reform, but kept the rate at 50p, and the guy who came up with that gem has now moved on to become a millionaire. Niether would I expect a Parliament full of political careerists to vote through measures that would spoil their little earners and expense claims. Niether do I expect a peasants revolt any time soon either, as a deferential majority apparently still know their place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 because in real terms Obs (and to quote a well worn phrase) people have never had it so good...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Some - but over the next few years many won't be, but will still know their place in the general scheme of things! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I am sure that you can campaign to stop off shore accounts and tax evasion. To many interested parties with their hands in the till for any thing to be done on tax Phillip Green gave ?900,000 to the Tory Party, he wants it back in tax benefits now they are in power http://www.danielbye.co.uk/3/post/2011/03/we-are-the-moderates.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Kije, I agree with a lot on your link (and it was Fortnum and Mason who gave the ?900,000 according to the site, not Green) the problem is that when the Liebour lot were borrowing billions on the countrys credit card; they too were not getting the taxes off these people. It is only now that the credit card bill needs paying that this has suddenly become a "tory" problem. Tax evasion has been going on all through the last governments 13 years but it appears they tried to hide it from us by borrowing the money to build the schools and hospitals. Now that all the cuts have to be brought in (because the tories won't reign in the tax dodgers either) everyone suddenly makes out it is a new problem. A chap called Sir Ronald Cohen (one of Labours biggest donors) was a tax dodging non-dom so it is easy to see they are all at the trough with snouts ready Yes they should make sure these taxes are paid and yes the likes of Green should stop using his wife to avoid tax.... it just will never happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Tax evasion has being going on since taxation was invented, And I do agree labour should have done a lot more when they were in, but they were cosying up to these people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Tax evasion has being going on since taxation was invented, And I do agree labour should have done a lot more when they were in, but they were cosying up to these people exactly, but to listen to all the leftys on here it is all the fault of the tories when in fact it is ALL politicians who are guilty. When the whole sorry saga is stitched up like a kipper; what can be done to change it? Nothing the normal Joe can do as far as I can see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 To be fair Baz, The tories get it in the neck more than labour on this issue because with the Tories, it is seen as them looking after their own It would be like Labour not hitting on benefit cheats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Woe Baz, some of us recognise the three main parties for what they are, shades of the same colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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