M&S expansion at Gemini?

[observer]

Would it be better for the Town, if M&S were to expand their Town Centre premises, rather than their "out of Town" one? :confused:

[Peter T]

Yes, apart from the parking issues. And perhaps Boots should go back to Bridge Street.

[TLC]

Obs, where are they to extend in town? :confused: They already use all the space they have. :crazy:

[AdrianR]

No parking issues in gemini extension accordign to Council planners. Not the same ones who puty the lights in at Westbrook are they?

 

Council have very limited hope of not lettign the expansion happen with M&S already confirming extra jobs etc.

 

Interestign that they use lack of public transport as an issue. Who controls the buses then? A 20 min frequency for the 18A's. Seemms okay to me. Better than some places.

[Eddie]

I've had no problems parking at Gemini, mainly because by the time I get to the end of the queue on Cromwell Ave most people have finished their shopping and gone home

[observer]

The era of "out of Town" development has clearly crippled "the high street".

[Bazj]

Discouraging car use does not always provide the answer though....

 

I was in London this afternoon and in a cab between stations I got chatting to the driver (as one does!) and he pointed out quite a few interseting things about the congestion charge and its failings....

 

one of which was that although Ken Livingston has put something like 600 bendy buses on the streets it has cost millions upon millions more as well as many months of major roadworks causing more congestion because the buses wouldn't go around half of the corners so they all have to be made bendy bus friendly.

 

He also said that although Ken Livingston was anti car and pro bus, and that he didn't like to see just one person in a car etc. most of the buses (as the guy pointed out) were empty or had no more than 2 or 3 people on them. A bus kicks out a lot of emissions and takes up 3 times more space than a car, thus filling up the raods more.

 

Not quite the problems we have here, but how many buses are there running round Warrington with no one on them except the driver and the obligatory young girl standing talking to the driver?

 

The guy had a point!!

[KeithR]

Strange :confused: :confused:

The number of people using buses in London (already at 6mn each day: as many as those that take London Commuter Rail and the London Underground combined) is soaring.

 

The old Routemaster was replaced by the bendy bus because it couldn't handle the numbers.

[McBain]

Gemini must be one of Warrington Council's greatest blunders. Originally planned as a business park it has rapidly degenerated into a third-rate out-of-town shopping destination. Personally, I think that after Ikea extended it was inevitable that M&S would want to do the same. Of course, they could achieve this just by sticking a mezzanine deck in without increasing footprint, but they won't. For some reason, Council officers see Gemini as something to be proud of rather than something that needs to be reined in and corrected. Perhaps Councillor Long can express a view (Wesbtrook member isn't he?).

[observer]

We have a "free" bus service for the over 60s; and if Town could be made more attractive, no doubt usage would increase.

[AdrianR]

am i right in thinking that the Town Store is to be expanded as well (according to the hand out they dished out sometime back). What is behind the corragated iron where WH Smith used to be. The roof hasnt even been finished there - plastic covers it.

 

Regardles of yoru views, the reasons given for refusing are fundamentally flawed and easily open to challenge if M&S legal get their hands on it. Why dont WBC save soem money and just let it through subejct to Town Store redevelopment as well.

[observer]

When M&S originally applied for the Gemini store; it was a wise Council(or) who insisted they keep open their Town Centre Store too - think it's called forsight?!

[Bazj]

Keith,

 

I am only saying what the taxi driver pointed out and said to me. It was about 3:30 in the afternoon and sure enough he pointed out at least 10 buses with one or two people on them. The underground is probably more full at these times but at ?4.00 for a single zone journey is a bit expensive. ?2.00 was the rate on the bus from Euston to Harrods but I got a cab instead!

 

No doubt at rush hour the buses are full too because the tube etc. gets over capacity.

 

He was also very scathing about the bendy buses. all the additional expense to make the corners friendly to them has not gone down well with the taxpayer; but KL isn't bothered, he is just pushing on with his own personal agenda and no doubt will land a nice grace and favour job with an Olympic construction company or two?

 

He is also quite adept at spending tax payers money to serve his own ends and to date has spent 168 million in litigation costs sueing people!

 

But back to Warrington; how many times do we see in that there are buses driving around with just the driver on board? surely that is more damaging than the average 4x4 with 4 people in it?

[JimmyMac]

Originally posted by BazJ:

But back to Warrington; how many times do we see in that there are buses driving around with just the driver on board?

Not very often at all. How often do you see empty buses running in service in Warrington? When and where?

[Paul Kennedy]

In fairness Warrington's buses are busier, mainly due to free passes for OAPs. Might well have taken some cars off the road, but certainly has encouraged OAPs to get out and about more than they did before.

 

[ 27.11.2007, 19:29: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

[JimmyMac]

Originally posted by Paul Kennedy:

Well funny you you mention that, one going through Stockton Heath at about 9 this morning. And with reference to a previous post, there was one woman on board, but not talking to the driver

In which direction? Was it on-time, maybe following a bus which had picked up people already? I note it was also too late to get to work for a 9am start but too early for concessionary passes to be valid.

 

Other things that can lead to the impression that buses run empty are seeing buses at the end of the route when they've dropped off most of their passengers, or yet to pick them up, or that the bus is running in one direction against the main flow of people but will be well-used on the return journey.

 

I often see taxis with no-one but the driver in, and the vast majority of 4x4s I see are pretty empty as well, but I don't complain about them. Well, not much...

 

[ 27.11.2007, 19:43: Message edited by: JimmyMac ]

[JimmyMac]

But trying to get back onto topic...

 

Originally posted by Adrian:

Interestign that they use lack of public transport as an issue. Who controls the buses then? A 20 min frequency for the 18A's. Seemms okay to me. Better than some places.

An increased frequency as of early 2005, as previously it was only every 30 mins. The council owns the bus company, but that doesn't mean they control them directly. They do have a number of seats on the limited company's board, and no doubt can help form policy, but the day-to-day running is in the hands of the management team.

[Paul Kennedy]

Originally posted by JimmyMac:

Originally posted by Paul Kennedy:

Well funny you you mention that, one going through Stockton Heath at about 9 this morning. And with reference to a previous post, there was one woman on board, but not talking to the driver

In which direction? Was it on-time, maybe following a bus which had picked up people already? I note it was also too late to get to work for a 9am start but too early for concessionary passes to be valid.

 

Other things that can lead to the impression that buses run empty are seeing buses at the end of the route when they've dropped off most of their passengers, or yet to pick them up, or that the bus is running in one direction against the main flow of people but will be well-used on the return journey.

 

I often see taxis with no-one but the driver in, and the vast majority of 4x4s I see are pretty empty as well, but I don't complain about them. Well, not much...

Crikey JM, I removed the first section of my post within minutes of posting it, as I decided one person on the bus did not qualify it as an empty bus.

[Paul Kennedy]

Originally posted by JimmyMac:

A service in the provinces would not last very long if it was merely carting around fresh air

But don't they get grants to operate services, thereby subsidising services that would otherwise be unprofitable :confused:

[observer]

I think WBT was delivering "a profit" to the Council at one time, perhaps it was re-invested?

[JimmyMac]

Originally posted by Paul Kennedy:

Crikey JM, I removed the first section of my post within minutes of posting it, as I decided one person on the bus did not qualify it as an empty bus.

Hehe, yeah, sorry, by the time I'd finished writing my reply you'd edited your original. Hope you don't mind me leaving my explanation there, as it's pretty good.

 

Originally posted by Paul Kennedy:

But don't they get grants to operate services, thereby subsidising services that would otherwise be unprofitable

If there is no commercial service in an area where the social need is great but the costs don't quite add up, *then* the council is allowed to put the route up for tender, with some subsidy being paid. In Warrington, this normally goes towards some evening and Sunday services, as pretty much all daytime services are operated commercially. Any bus operator can put forward a tender, with normally the lowest price winning.

 

There's also Bus Service Operators Grant, formerly known as Fuel Duty Rebate, which comes from central Government. This is essentially some money back off the cost of fuel duty already paid. May seem unfair to the private motorist, but then consider how much fuel a bus operator uses compared to the average household - although serving a whole lot of households.

[Peter T]

They never offered us any fuel duty back when we ran the Community bus and got our fuel from WBT.

[JimmyMac]

Originally posted by Peter:

They never offered us any fuel duty back when we ran the Community bus and got our fuel from WBT.

Did you have a full bus operators licence? I suspect not - although I'm heading a bit out of my comfort zone by now [iANAL et al]...

[little fella]

Warrington transport must have plenty of money as they are sponsors of the hamster wheel in town. Apparently if you go on a bus you can get a half price ticket on the hamster wheel from the driver.

Is it me, I fail to see the connection? Isn't the bus money public money? Can they give it away like that? I thought that people paid to advertise on busses not the other way around.

[observer]

An "arms length company"; sort of New Labour hybrid that's niether private or public!