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Westbrook/Asda traffic lights

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Just like to say, well done to the genius who came up with the idea of replacing a smooth flowing roundabout, with a bottleneck producing set of traffic lights on Cromwell avenue at Asda.

 

Last Sunday was the best yet, 3pm and I was queued back past the next roundabout waiting on the lights.

 

Well done genius, on producing traffic chaos where none previously existed!!!!

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As I recently read somewhere, in order to introduce a congestion charge, you first have to create congestion. :D

 

[ 30.06.2007, 12:10: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

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Originally posted by Paul Kennedy:

As I recently read somewhere, in order to introduce a congestion charge, you first have to create congestion. :D

I'll be honest, I pay no attention to local politics, mainly because I'm new to the area, and therefore feel my opinions should not carry much weight compared to those who've lived their lives here, and also as chances are I won't spend the rest of mine here either, but this has just cheesed me off no end, it's a junction I use a lot, that never had congestion problems, now it has continually, what a bloody waste of money.

 

Who do I contact?

 

[ 07.07.2007, 20:59: Message edited by: Peter ]

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I've said for years there are too many traffic lights in Warrington - the classic ones are on the Crosfields roundabout - the only time traffic flows smoothly at rush hour is when the traffic lights are out of action! :o

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I reckon someone is taking a back hander from the traffic light firms....

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No, somebody made a mistake on the order form and added an extra "0".

 

And has as often been said, in order to introduce anti congestion measures, you first of all have to create congestion!

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Seen an accident at those lights yesterday (well the aftermath), 2 cars same direction rear end shunt. The first of many such shunts I would imagine especially as we move in to winter and xmas etc.

 

John

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wrote an email to both of my local councillors on Wednesday about these damn lights.... no reply as yet.... no suprise there then

 

There was an accident at the burtonwood roundabout earlier tonight when my and the family were walking across to Little Frankies for some dinner. Traffic was backed up everywhere and the lights just made it worse. Does anyone know how to turn traffic lights off?? :D

 

Baz

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Agreed, They are an abortion that came out of the blue.. Having worked at the cinema in my youth and coming from nearby it was one of my regular routes, its troughfare has been unburdoned until now, they should name and shame the idiot who came up with this random act of traffic vandalism.

 

why...WHY ? what possible reasoning was there to create a jam where there was free flowing traffic...unless as previously suggested to create congestion as they are doing for manchester with the A6 closure.

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I experienced the new set up for the first time onb saturday and nearly missed the start of Harry Potter.

What normally took five minutes to sail through took about 15 minutes this time! :x

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Got this reply to my email to David Earl:

 

"Barry

 

Thanks for your email with regard to the lights. Both myself & Cllr Long are concerned about the problems arising, which the Highways assured us would cease once the microprocessors & software had been installed in the system - which obviously hasn't happened. We are contacting the Highways dept. this week to request attention to the matter. All we have been told by the depatment is that it is to national guidelines for a junction with two pedestrian crossings at right-angles (i.e. one on Cromwell Ave & one at the end of Westbrook Crescent. As I am not a Highways engineer I don't have the information to counter this, but common sense seems to suggest that queuing could result from traffic stopping at a red light!

 

Whilst a request for a crossing had been lodged with Highways over 5 years ago by the former Westbrook councillors, due to much lobbying from many Ladywood & Shakleton Close residents (which I also supported when I got on the Parish Council in 2003 & the Borough Council in 2004), Cllr Long & I only received noification from Highways in late April that scheme was due to start in May, which was after the job had been tendered and awarded to the contractor, so it was not possible to stop it going ahead - a situation which should not have occurred - indeed questions we shall ask include i) why Highways did not give us advance notice of the type of scheme & ii) what consultations took place in the community beforehand. We shall also ask for costings of the project.

 

We are extremely unhappy that, as Council representatives for Westbrook & Callands, the Highways dept did not fully inform us of the extent of the scheme prior to any firm proposal being sent to tender. It seems that, once any request for traffic/pedestrian measures has been accepted, the department draw up a scheme and go forward without further reference to local representatives. This is the first major Highway amendment scheme in the area for some years and, as relatively new Council members, we have been 'caught out' by this manner of working - something which I, as an Executive member, find unacceptable and intend to ask to be changed.

 

However, this does not solve the immediate problem of queuing traffic. To reinstate the roundabout may well be impractical but we both accept that matters cannot continue as at present and will be pressing to see what data went into the design of this project. We shall advise you of the response as soon as possible.

 

Regards

 

David Earl & Bernard Long"

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Hmmm, methinks he's had a few letters, I got the same reply.

 

I sincerely hope he does kick up a consdierable stink.

 

Came from the south end at 1pm Sunday, traffic was queued past the Old Hall junction, ten minutes queueing to get through the lights

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Well here is the response from the highways dept - in full.

 

 

Background:

 

The Sustainable Transport Improvement Study for the North West sector of Warrington was carried out in 2001 which included a two stage consultation process. Leaflets were distributed to all households in the area and high profile exhibitions held including two at Asda Westbrook. The objective of the study was to identify measures in the area which would remove barriers to access by bus, bike and foot. The two stage approach allowed the public to be involved in identifying the range of proposals and then prioritising the most important improvements.

 

One of the key outcomes of this study was the support for pedestrian and cycle improvements along Cromwell Avenue between Sankey Way and Westbrook Way. Starting in 2002, the council has prioritised a significant level of funding to this route. As well as extensive sections of pedestrian/cycleway, the identified measures included two controlled crossings adjacent to the main pedestrian access to the Westbrook Centre at Wesbrook Crescent (S) and Cromwell Avenue from the direction of Ladywood Road. The measures also address comments raised during the consultation relating to access to the centre from the Ladywood Road area for wheelchairs, prams and buggies.

 

Both crossings had been assessed independently through the pedestrian crossing criteria developed by the Traffic Management and Road Safety and been shown to be crossings worthy of detailed consideration.

 

Initial preliminary design considered standalone pedestrian crossing on two arms of the roundabout. However, detailed design revealed that this could not be achieved safely on both arms of the roundabout. Therefore, the design process led to the removal of the roundabout and provision of traffic signals with separate crossing stages. As with any installation of traffic signals there is a clear recognition, that, at certain times traffic will be required to give priority to other traffic flows, and in this case pedestrians, and as such will be subject to some additional delay compared to a roundabout layout.

As part of this process, a preliminary design was developed associated with the provision of a signal controlled junction incorporating a pedestrian phase.

 

The scheme was issued as pending in August 2003, following the submission of a planning application and the potential mitigation measures to review of the existing traffic management systems in operation (informal talks relating to the proposed expansion of the Asda Shopping complex, with a subsequent application submitted in 2004). Therefore, in order to avoid the potential for abortive work, it was proposed to request the above works were incorporated as part of any subsequent planning consent linked with the redevelopment of the Shopping Complex (i.e. mitigation measures).

 

Planning Application (Mitigation Measures)

 

As part of the planning assessment of the proposed Asda extension, the off-site highway requirements would have included the capacity improvement of the roundabout junction at Westbrook Crescent/Cromwell Avenue. This junction would have been changed to a new signalised junction that included pedestrian facilities on all approach arms.

 

Due to the level of objections received relating to the re-development of the store, the application was refused.

 

In view of the planning refusal, in order to progress the scheme further, Officers were requested to develop the detailed design for the junction of Cromwell Avenue/Ladywood Road/Westbrook Crescent to address the concerns previously raised relating to the movement of pedestrians and cyclists at the location in question.

 

The proposals were submitted to the local Ward Councillors for the area, to discuss and agree the most appropriate solution to be implemented.

 

Traffic Assessment:

 

As part of the initial design, Officers utilised computer programs (Linsig) to calculate timings, determine the phasing of the junction (including pedestrian phases) and staging of the signals. The main aim of the design was to provide a safe facility for pedestrians and cyclists, whilst minimising vehicular delay (i.e. establishing a balance between the requirements of all road users).

 

As part of the detailed design, the installation of the signal controlled junction incorporates a vehicle detection system which monitors the traffic flows and congestion. As with any such scheme, Officers from the Urban Traffic Management Unit (UTMC) will continue to monitor the scheme to ascertain whether any further works are required.

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OK...

 

couple of observations....

 

So the whole junction setup is based on a study carried out nearly 7 years ago?

 

They wanted to give equal (as in the same) priority to pedestrians and cyclists even though the quantities of each probably do not add up to one tenth of the numbers of cars in the area?

 

 

in some situations, they actually give priority to pedestrians?

 

I have to say it absolutely bloody infuriates me... these lilly livered liberal council staff think that by messing around with a perfectly good roundabout; they can cause delays which will no doubt only get worse, and then excuse it all by saying they had consultations and exhibitions years ago at ASDA which then makes it alright!

 

The problem is that you can't vote these idiots out; it isn't the councillors who make these daft decisions that affect our lives, it is the employees.... the councillors don't even get to hear about things by the sounds of it; especially if there is an election between planning and implimentation

 

Oh well, off to queue up!!

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Got to agree 100% with BazJ, that is an absolutely shocking excuse as supposed justification for the abortion at Westbrook.Seven years ago!!!!!

 

I can honestly say I haven't seen anyone use the pedestrian crossing on any arm as yet, and I would love to know why adding pedestrian crossings on the approaches is an unviable alternative to digging up the rounabour completely and adding full traffic lights. It works perfectly well in other towns, so why is Warrington different?

 

Are we going to get the same mess at the Seven Woods rounabout/pedestrian flyover?

 

What a complete joke! :x

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In those 7 years, we have had

 

Gullivers World plannign application for a hotel etc

Chapelford in its entirety

Gemmini expanding

Further industrial and office parks built.

 

....and more to come.

 

Talk about getting it wholly wrong at every level. They wont rip it out because that would mean admitting they were wrong and as we all know that will never happen.

 

[ 17.07.2007, 09:31: Message edited by: Adrian ]

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I'm surprised that anyone can live in the Westbrook area without having a car. It's not exactly close to town or work. :confused:

I wonder if the push-bike mob had a huge input into this?

 

We can't even get a Pelican Crossing on Knutsford Road, and that is an area where people do cross the road.

 

No doubt, when people stop shopping there, and ASDA and co find their takings down, perhaps they will apply pressure on the council to reverse the situation.

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They wont rip it out because that would mean admitting they were wrong and as we all know that will never happen.

They should be big anough to admit they are wrong, and do it.

 

It happened a number of years ago in Aberdeen (where I'm from obv.), when for god knows what reason, a very busy roundabout was dug up and changed to lights, of course chaos ensued. Within two months they had dug that up as well, reinstated the roundabout, and added pedestrian crossings on every approach.

 

 

Anybody see any echoes here?

:thinker:

 

[ 17.07.2007, 10:08: Message edited by: fatshaft ]

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Originally posted by Gary:

Traffic Assessment:

 

As part of the initial design, Officers utilised computer programs (Linsig) to calculate timings, determine the phasing of the junction (including pedestrian phases) and staging of the signals. The main aim of the design was to provide a safe facility for pedestrians and cyclists, whilst minimising vehicular delay (i.e. establishing a balance between the requirements of all road users).

 

and did any of these analyst enter this data into linsig

 

pedestrians per hour = 1

motor vehicles per hour = 4000

 

I'm not anti pedestrian here, they could have had 2 perfectly good press button crossing half way up each of the roads..of course there would be less cost involved in this, so the backhander from the contracter would be reduced to reflect this /sinical

 

and easy as it is to blame the lilly livered libs for this, as the facts now show that this was "signed off" how long ago... which council did we have then ?

 

[ 17.07.2007, 12:01: Message edited by: legion ]

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If the pedestrians would take several extra steps there is a huge pedestrian bridge that they can take across the road!

 

At the Old Hall roundabout they introduced a pedestrian crossing without removing the roundabout. The cars stop when someone wants to cross and move freely at other times until they get stuck in the traffic caused by the new ones!

 

As someone who works at the school near the cinema I can tell you that parents are late picking up children because they are stuck in the traffic on Cromwell Avenue caused by the lights. I have worked there for 9 years and never been stuck in traffic until those damn lights went up!

 

Milly

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Originally posted by milly:

If the pedestrians would take several extra steps there is a huge pedestrian bridge that they can take across the road!

Presumably tugging their forelocks to all those very very important people in cars.

 

Imagine the sheer presumption of those oiks from shackleton close for thinking that they should be able to cross the road to reach their local shops or school.

 

As someone who works at the school near the cinema I can tell you that parents are late picking up children because they are stuck in the traffic on Cromwell Avenue

Perhaps if a few of them "took a few steps", as you put it, it would ease the queue a bit.

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