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Lucy

Why the change?

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I've been on another of my rare visits to the town centre. In Bridge Street, I accidentally dropped a tissue and the wind blew it a few yards behind me. I turned to pick it up, but before I could, a gentleman picked it up for me. I thanked him and he said: "I could see you were going back for it - but we are of the last generation that would bother."

We discussed the issue and pondered why people are such litterbugs, are so scruffy, so disrespectful, etc, than in our younger days.

We came to the conclusion that in the "bad old days" working class people had some respect for the place in which they lived. Today, working class people have, rightfully, received better educations and getter standards of living. Trouble is, it has made them think that menial tasks like picking up litter, are beneath them, showing respect to others and the environment, is for others, not them.

Anyone else got views?

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The erosion of discipline and falling standards encouraged by the people in charge, PLUS the trash that is called entertainment.

 

Think positive Lucy, (welcome back), if you hadn't been born when you were, you would never have known how high standards used to be. :wink:

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Not sure this argument is quite right. Times have changed. There is so much packaging. At one time if you had a sofa to dispose of you contacted the council who did it free. Now we have vehicles, and people use them to save cost.

 

In the fifties (the good old days?) when I had a trainee policeman under my wing, as an exercise, we would stand at a bus stop and watch people get off. There was a used ticket box on the bus, always, then one on the bus stop, but people would still walk five yards and throw the ticket on the floor. Fag packets abounded.

 

Because of litter problems, the Litter Act of 1959 was introduced, and probably for reasons like the ones above, things have not improved. I think we just have a lot more to throw away these days. We are probably no more and no less untidy now.

 

Happy days

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Harry, there is some substance in what you say, BUT the main problem is not the extra litter, but the lack of parenting skills and the teaching of what is expected. My lad's pockets were always full of sweet papers as he was taught not to throw things on the floor/streets.

 

And it's not just the kids as those in their 30's throw litter about. :twisted:

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Well if we're no different now than what we were back in the fifties then we haven't achieved much have we?

 

I think it's down to the individual, you either give a damn about litter or you don't.

 

 

Bill :)

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Ferral kids with nothing to do, but walk about the streets spitting and throwing their food trays, beer/pop cans and chip papers where ever they please. The hedgerows along the A50 going out of Warrinton are full of litter, thrown by passing motorists.

 

So called responsible adults casting a quick glance around them to see if anybody is watching, and then throw a carierbag full of rubbish in the bushes. This person was the only person I ever caught dumping rubbish on a fishery in 12 years. He paid the price, and good riddance to him.

 

I think we have to face facts. Warrington have a comunity of people who think it is somebody elses job to pick up after them. Catching a litter lout in the act is nigh on impossible. But they all know it is wrong.

 

There is a row of private houses in Lymm. the hedgerow that runs along the back of the houses are full of plastic bags full of dog dirt. Thrown there by a magistrate.

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Wingy, regarding this magistrate I say, NAME & SHAME him/her, accompanied by a photo of said person caught in the act. :wink:

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The erosion of discipline and falling standards encouraged by the people in charge, PLUS the trash that is called entertainment.

 

Think positive Lucy, (welcome back), if you hadn't been born when you were, you would never have known how high standards used to be. :wink:

I've got to ask what possible connection there is between entertainment and dropping litter?

 

You may not like today's entertainment, but I'd far rather listen to today's music than that of the 50s & 60s, and I'm in my mid-40s. Nevertheless seems like nothing but a grumpy old man 'young people nowadays' argument to me.

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The erosion of discipline and falling standards encouraged by the people in charge, PLUS the trash that is called entertainment.

 

Think positive Lucy, (welcome back), if you hadn't been born when you were, you would never have known how high standards used to be. :wink:

I've got to ask what possible connection there is between entertainment and dropping litter?

 

You may not like today's entertainment, but I'd far rather listen to today's music than that of the 50s & 60s, and I'm in my mid-40s. Nevertheless seems like nothing but a grumpy old man 'young people nowadays' argument to me.

 

ALL generations are affected by lots of different types of information and media.

You only have to read the comments on here about newspapers being politically biased.

 

I was referring to TV and films and the trash that we import from America.

Do they make films without the F word anymore? Are there any comedians left who can be funny without swearing?

 

The connection is how they are brought up and what influences that. A head full of rubbish, is normally a good guide to a person's mentality.

 

Fatshaft, do you throw your litter on the ground? Do you think it is ok for young girls to be effing and jeffing?

 

Nothing to do with being old or grumpy.

 

Perhaps you could reply to the original question instead of having a go at me, or do both. :wink:

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Perhaps you could reply to the original question instead of having a go at me, or do both. :wink:

I don't agree with the premise of the OP at all. I fully concur with Harry, and the fact the litter act was introduced in 1959 sort of tells us all we need to know regarding the faulty memory that brought about that premise.

 

The way some oldies talk, you'd think there was no crime at all before 1980. Well seeing as prisons are not a modern invention, I'm guessing there were plenty of troublemakers in years gone by.

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Are you saying that there is less rubbish lying around these days than say twenty years ago?

 

No-one is suggesting that there was no crime. There was certainly less because for two reasons. People looked for their neighbours and knew that the parents would discipline their kids, and also prison used to be a punishment and most didn't want to go back.

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Are you saying that there is less rubbish lying around these days than say twenty years ago?
Why would you assume I meant that? We don't all go around point scoring and trying to preach a holier than thou message. What I and Harry have said quite clearly is that the impression the OP has is clearly based on a false memory of some utopian era that didn't exist.

 

 

No-one is suggesting that there was no crime. There was certainly less because for two reasons. People looked for their neighbours and knew that the parents would discipline their kids, and also prison used to be a punishment and most didn't want to go back.
I'm not aware of any historical increase in repeat offending, can you supply the source to back up that statement?

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So how can someone in their mid-40s seriously question the memory of someone considerably older than he about matters that happened before he was born?

I know there was never a Utopian age. I know there was always crime (which was not mentioned in my original post) and always litter.

But it was better then. And I know plenty of people who would agree with me.

Standards of behaviour were better, there was much less litter.

I note that the rather objectionable character in his mid-40s has been asked if he drops litter and hasn't responded. Are we to assume from that he is one of the litterbugs who doesn't give a damn and referred to by one of the other posters?

You only have to look at the name he has chosen to post under to see what sort of a person he is!

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So how can someone in their mid-40s seriously question the memory of someone considerably older than he about matters that happened before he was born?

I know there was never a Utopian age. I know there was always crime (which was not mentioned in my original post) and always litter.

But it was better then. And I know plenty of people who would agree with me.

Standards of behaviour were better, there was much less litter.

I note that the rather objectionable character in his mid-40s has been asked if he drops litter and hasn't responded. Are we to assume from that he is one of the litterbugs who doesn't give a damn and referred to by one of the other posters?

You only have to look at the name he has chosen to post under to see what sort of a person he is!

You would assume that, because like your OP, it's a comment made with no evidence whatsoever.

 

There was no response to that particular question because it didn't deserve a response.

 

You may find me objectionable for disagreeing with your assertion, I find your whole assertion and tone objectionable.

 

So I guess someone who lived through the fifties - a time when littering had become such a problem that an act of parliament was passed about it - perhaps also has a problem with her overt rudeness?

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You only have to look at the name he has chosen to post under to see what sort of a person he is!

Indeed, a golfer no less, and if you didn't have such a narrow, and if I may say so, perverted mind, you'd have perhaps realised that!

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Peter's comment has nailed it for me.

The erosion of discipline and falling standards encouraged by the people in charge

 

Picking up after other people does not work.

The people in charge are the only people who can put a stop to litter louts. Until they do, we will just have accept it and get used to it.

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Ferral kids

 

That is a wonderful expression of the children that society has left behind. May I use it Wings?

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Picking up after other people does not work.

.

 

I agree with you there Wingy and even I am getting fed up of picking up other peoples disgarded rubish of the streets and more so from the other side of the fence of the canal bank around here. The council litter pickers are not allowed to do that area as it belongs to Peel Holdings and as such they are not allowed to reach over the fence to pick it up. I can though :?

 

What amazes me more is the whenever I am out with my litter stick I get many comments from people who see me saying what a 'sterling job I am doing' even though I am removing rubish from opposite some of the peoples own homes.... often wondered why they never pop out and pick it up themselves but then again why should they have to eh.

 

I suppose it doesn't help that the council have recently removed the litter bin although the idiots who constantly drop their items oviously wouldn't have used it anyway :evil:

 

And just as a final moan... some dog owners are just leaving their little balck bags of 'deposits' at the spot where the bin used to be. Maybe they are trying to prove some sort of point but that really really annoys me too :evil:

 

Time for bed I think :oops::lol:

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I agree with Fatshaft

 

Now there's a surprise!!

 

Fatshaft. WHY you should think that Lucy has a perverted mind is beyond comprehension. She is probably bewildered by a non de plume such as yours, as no doubt most are. Don't you have a proper name?

 

What I find strange is the fact that you object to any comment about anti-social behaviour and keep saying that it is all in the minds of old folk.

 

For someone who whinged about the state of Walton hall Golf course not being maintained properly, I am amazed that you readily accept today's shoddy standards in ALL departments. I note that you have a reluctance to answer questions as well. Are you Kije in disguise or maybe related?

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That is a wonderful expression of the children that society has left behind. May I use it Wings?

Be my guest Mary. :wink:

 

Dizzy.

How it works is like this:

Peel Holdings leese the fishing rights off to an agling club (canal bank). It then becomes the responsibility of the angling club to keep the area clear of litter within the leese. This is another prime example of who is responsible for litter. And that is anybody appart from the culprits who put it there in the first place. But as long as somebody/anybody picks it up, the powers that be don't care, they are happy enough to let it rest at that.

 

I will never understand the mentality of some people who will go out into the countryside, and sit amongst their own litter and rubbish, which they themselves have put there previously. Mostly I have noticed that these are people from deprived areas, but not always.

 

Graffiti on the walls of public property is the second of my pet hates.

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