inky pete Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Paper work cannot be done outside by a foot patrol officer and only a very limited amount in a car. I disagree. Virtually all of my own work related paperwork (and there's a LOT of it in my job!) is done using a PDA or laptop over an encrypted mobile data network. In these days of smartphones, iPads and tablet PC's - plus encrypted data, secure e-mail and digital signatures - there's little or no need for office based "paper" work anymore. It reduces clerical errors and saves duplication of effort too. Different electronic forms can be linked so that data they have in common, such as customer name & address, engineer (in my case) name and employee number, date and time, etc. etc. are all automatically copied across from one to another rather than having to be written in seperately of multiple different pieces of paper. The private sector have always had a strong incentive to reduce cost overheads, and they've been implementing such technologies just as fast as they've become available. If it saves money in an already pretty streamlined private sector, then the potential savings in a paper heavy public sector are huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 And more people would probably get mugged whilst walking the streets or working in their cars with their iPads or PDA's etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Not if there were more coppers out there with iPads and PDAs of their own, rather having to go all the way back to the station to fill in a few forms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Ahhh so the grots can mug the police for their iPads etc rather than mugging us for ours.... good thinking Inky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 They do have something like a hand held pc, that saves them getting all the info by calling in at the office. It also helps them to ID people and see if they have form. Whether it cuts down on filling forms in in quadruplicate, I don't know. Even the councillors now have super duper mobiles. far above their intelligence IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 You could do limited paper work in a car, but then Robin Hood and his merry men could sneak past, God knows the foot officer carries at least twice as much equipment as the old bobby ever did. One of the reasons they don't look as smart these days. As I said earlier there were only a few adaptable forms in the old borough days - nowadays they would have to lug a trailer round with them for all the stationery. One of my pet maxims is never to tell people how to do their own job as they invariably know it better than the lay man. The police are a professional organisation despite what some people think They have departments and think tanks to consider efficiency and there will no shortage of advice from the government inspectors,and HM inspectors of constabulary, to try and ensure best practices. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 From the almost complete lack of police on the streets (only 10% of them even "available" for frontline duties at any one time remember!) I'd say that the most charitable explanation is that they are all slaving away driving desks where we can't see them. If that is the case, then they obviously aren't using the technology they have effectively to reduce their own self-generated paperwork load. The police have some of the most powerful unions and professional bodies in existence in the Police Federation, ACPO and the Police Superintendents Association, and have always had powerful contacts in government and local authorities at every level. Absolutely nothing happens within the police service without at least the tacit approval of these three professional bodies. The excuse that all of the claimed current bureaucratic load has been imposed on the police from outside against their wishes, and that this is what is ham-stringing them, simply doesn't wash. The police forces across the country, and their unions, have ridden the publicly funded gravy train of ever increasing manpower being justified by the requirements of ever increasing bureaucracy and job demarcation for years and years. Now the bubble is bursting. Taxpayers don't want an officer specially trained in diversity issues, an officer specially trained in youth issues, an officer specially trained in disability issues, an officer who has spent time "understanding" the travelling community, and an officer with experience in victim support. They want a copper. No whistles. No bells. Just a copper. Where and when they need one. [/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I?m going to disagree on this one Inky!. I see people using PDAs and other such mobile devices while taking a break in the services or maybe on the train travelling somewhere but how the hells a copper going to be able to do this while on the beat? The traveling back to the station to type things up is only one part of the problem, the main thing is that the cops are having to carry out secretarial functions as part of their job and that?s where the time goes. If your going to use technology to try and make things better, then you need to change the entire system to accept things like audio reports and helmet cam video evidence. We need to get away from the beat cop having to type Full Stop! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Do they still wear helmets Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Think so! But never seen a woman cop with an helmet! Wonder why? Got breathalized on the 22nd by a woman cop! Just come out of the London Bridge. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Almost nobody has secretarial support any more Bill. Virtually everyone has had to learn to type at a reasonable speed - but over the next few years there will be less and less requirement for it. Modern technology will accept data from voice recognition software, still and video images, audio recordings, touch screen inputs, links to web based pages and databases, GPS data, pretty much anything that can be imagined. There is currently next to nothing that can be done in an office which cannot be done in the field - and there'll be even less in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Think you missed the point Inky. It's not what the technology can do it's what the law will allow them to use. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 You are right Inky there are not many secretaries these days as people tend to do their own stuff. Even doctors don't have them as a lot of there work is dictated into machines and then electronically sent abroad to be typed up to cut costs... although due to the language barrier the returned reports are often so badly 'written' that they then have to be corrected and retyped I don't think that technology which uses voice recording or recognition would be particularly quicker in the case of the officer on the beat though as he/she would still have to manually edit the 'report' or whatever to make it make sense in reading terms. It wouldn't just be a case of upload and submit ... job done. Can you imagine it "Officer 1234, location xyz... reports of a possible group of trouble makers spotted heading towards 'yes love Tesco two blocks up on the right' erm... heading towards Appleton. Descriptions given as one 5ft 11 'just milk please mate ' erm white male wearing a 'red light you idiot that means STOP' erm a hooded top embroidered with the words 'excuse me sir but you can't park here' erm... oh sod it " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Almost nobody has secretarial support any more In general you are correct. However the legal industry, lawyers, solicitors etc is run by secretaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I have disagreed with pretty much everything Inkey Pete has posted on this thread, so it would be churlish not to agree with him about all the specialty officers mentioned in his penultimate paragraph. However it would be politically incorrect to get rid of them, although I ask myself why. But as I said earlier, making small savings here and there won't solve many problems - it's the billions that we should be looking at more closely. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Most modern institutions have been ground down to virtual inertia by PC political rules. We have the nonesense of so-called staff diversity to reflect the communities they serve, without any reference to ability; hence the employment of less physically robust coppers, who could have a problem controlling a primary school class. Then we have the law itself, where catching the bad guys comes second to doing things by the book, otherwise some sharp defendent lawyer will slip through a loop hole and finish up sueing the cops. Then there's the Independent Police Complaints Commision - perhaps necessary to a degree - but it all costs money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemik Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Stockton Heath Police Station is the worst.I've been attacked twice on my way home from the Parr hall on Friday nights, and gone to report it and no-one was in. One time me and my friend (who had been quite seriously assaulted) had to wait outside whilst a bouncer called through the letter box to see if anyone was in, to then wait for a Police car to return to the station before we could make a statement and by that time the bloke had probably made his way into town and most likely caused another fight. Tom- Stockton heath is open 9-5 mon- fri, it clearly states on the door to use the intercom and they will direct you as to how they can help you and what you need to do, they are in the control room so if an officer is needed urgently they will send one as an emergency, as they would if you called on any phone. As it states the station is closed why would you shout through the letterbox rather than use the intercom facility? you pass phoneboxes and a garage that are open 24/7 why did you not ask in the garage to call 999 if you were being assaulted or call from the phonebox and without stereotyping it is very unusual for young people not to have a mobile these days. As you say the offender was probably in town centre by the time the police got there, they would be if you have walked from the causeway to Stockton heath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teessidewire Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Having read all 5 pages of this thread, I have to say that some of the posters don't appear to have a clue what policing is actually all about. Unfortunately these days it is not simply a case of arresting someone, doing a quick interview and then putting them before the court. You actually have to have the evidence and show that you have the evidence, and then produce it at court. As for Stockton Heath Police Office not being open at night, what do yiou want? Someone to be in the office all night to answer maybe one or two callers, or an intercom directly through to the Police Control Room? As for those who think being a Police Officer is an easy option, please think again. Dragging bloated bodies out of the river, being first to the scene of a murder, dealing with the death of a child. Certainly not an easy option. Cheshire Police actually give you a reasonably good service, the problem they have is like the problem with everything else these days, they are constrained by red tape and government restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Cheshire Police actually give you a reasonably good service You don't live in Warrington, do you Teesside? Or if you do, you've not had reason to need the police in a hurry, have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 They might be round your house a lot quicker than you thought after that comment Inky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Just had an eye opener on this subject 0n BBC tonight, a prog about the M/Way police. Now it wasn't just the time and effort required from the police to catch drink drivers or drivers using mobile phones that grated; but after all that effort, the measly penalties that were dished out by the judicery. EG: one guy seen by 2 coppers using a moby, gets a ticket: BUT, cos they apparently had no powers to search him, they couldn't ID the phone. The guy didn't even pay his ticket - and nowts been done about it. Another (HGV) driver, caught using a moby, smells of booze, gets breathalized, and is more than twice the limit - he got fined plus an 18month ban. 18 months it should have been 18 years. These Richard Heads are driving our roads, and are as much a danger to the rest of us, as if they had gone on a shooting spree with a hand gun. So perhaps if the judicery started backing up the police efforts with serious penalties, their efforts might result in changes in public behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teessidewire Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Cheshire Police actually give you a reasonably good service You don't live in Warrington, do you Teesside? Or if you do, you've not had reason to need the police in a hurry, have you? No I don't, I left over 30 years ago, but I come home quite a lot and my family still live in the town. They have had dealings with Cheshire Police fairly recently (theft of a car), and were very happy with the response as the thief was caught minutes later. What I was saying is that some people on here have absolutely no idea what the Police do and what they have to put up with. I base this on 30 years experience with Cleveland Police (plus a fairly good knowledge of the workings of Cheshire Police), almost all of it at the sharp end in an area which in parts can be far worse than anything in Warrington. Some people on here have criticised the men and women who make up Cheshire Police without having any idea of what they have to deal with on a daily basis (and they do have to deal with these things, they can't refuse). My point was basically, by all means criticise the system, or the organisation, but don't criticise those who work in a very difficult job within that organisation unless you know what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 Cheshire Police actually give you a reasonably good service You don't live in Warrington, do you Teesside? Or if you do, you've not had reason to need the police in a hurry, have you? No I don't, I left over 30 years ago, but I come home quite a lot and my family still live in the town. They have had dealings with Cheshire Police fairly recently (theft of a car), and were very happy with the response as the thief was caught minutes later. What I was saying is that some people on here have absolutely no idea what the Police do and what they have to put up with. I base this on 30 years experience with Cleveland Police (plus a fairly good knowledge of the workings of Cheshire Police), almost all of it at the sharp end in an area which in parts can be far worse than anything in Warrington. Some people on here have criticised the men and women who make up Cheshire Police without having any idea of what they have to deal with on a daily basis (and they do have to deal with these things, they can't refuse). My point was basically, by all means criticise the system, or the organisation, but don't criticise those who work in a very difficult job within that organisation unless you know what you're talking about. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 I agree. Excellent Post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 I agree too, very good post. But I do think that where there is a local police station it should be possible for members of the public to ring it or call in to report crimes etc. Sadly you just can't do that anymore even when it is open and manned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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