wolfie Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 And it's even worse if the person who spends their entire day dreaming up new ways of doing the absolute minimum work they can get away with without actually breaching their contract is an investment banker who then gets ?500,000 bonus at the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 I have, regularly, received bonuses for my contribution in the workplace over and above what is reflected in my union regulated, collective pay bargaining based, basic salary. Others I work with who have done no more than just put in the hours while achieving next to nothing, haven't. I demonstrably do more work than them, I deserve to be paid more. My employer can't increase just my basic salary alone - because of all this "fair days pay" and "rate for the job" nonsense - so I'm rewarded through PRP, first choice of overtime opportunities, and one off bonuses. Such payments DO form part of the calculation to determine my Average Hourly Rate for the purposes of holiday pay etc. The issue of whether or not such payments are pensionable is only relevent in final salary scheme situations, and in the private sector (AKA the real world) there's VERY few of those left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 PRP. Not heard of that for ages. They dumped it where I worked because they hadn't found a way to keep profits down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Performance Related Pay. Agreed performance criteria at the start of the year, measurement against them throughout the year, and reward for over achievement either quarterly or annually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Smoke and mirrors pay schemes, designed to pay more for folk doing the job they should be doing in the first place. As for the inability of Managers to sack "shirkers"; that's due to the Managers not knowing the requisite procedures for monitoring and appraising staff, and the confidence in their bosses to back them up in a diciplinary scenario - where "the shirker" and his Union probably do have a better knowledge of "the rules" than the Manager. But back to the obscene bonuses received by "Bankers"; these are being paid out irrespective of the state of the Companies, and their incentive to "take risks" actually encouraged the losses in toxic debt that have brought about their downfall. SO, given that the Banks FAILED, how are any of these spivs worth a bonus in any event - they're lucky not to have been hanged from the nearest lamp post, assuming there are any lamp posts in Canary Wharf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 I demonstrably do more work than them, I deserve to be paid more. Sounds like Wayne Rooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 I demonstrably do more work than them, I deserve to be paid more. Sounds like Wayne Rooney. Rooney is better at his job (kicking a ball) than a non-league footballer, and does more work (scoring goals) - so he DOES deserve higher earnings. Whether or not he deserves the full level of his pay is another question. Pay should always be linked to a persons productivity and contribution to their business. Anything else is just paying people for turning up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 and just what constitutes "productivity"? - Most Managers I came across, introduced all sorts of gimmicks, changed offices around (at great expense), in other words - a facade of bulls**t, to get them noticed ready for their next promotion. Within 2 years they'd move on to their next job, leaving a mess to be cleaned up by the folk "who just turned up for work"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 That certainly applied in the police service obs, although they were called superintendents in that case. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 and just what constitutes "productivity"? Anyone who can't define productivity within their own job doesn't deserve to be in the job in the first place! You're either sat at your desk doing something useful to the business, and doing it in an efficient manner, or like these council workers - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341245/Council-staff-hard-work--Facebook-How-employees-use-site-other.html you're not. It is after all a fairly basic concept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 That certainly applied in the police service obs, although they were called superintendents in that case. Happy days Also applied at ICI when some crackpot acedemic engineer fresh from Uni. would come on site and try to reinvent the wheel, no matter how many times we told them it had been tried before they would persist with the same time wasting and costly, negative results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 Thus creating the illusion of productivity as their passport for self advancement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted December 27, 2010 Report Share Posted December 27, 2010 You don't work for a bank do you inky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2010 Obviously not in Canary Wharf! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 they would persist with the same time wasting and costly, negative results. Isn't that how most research ends up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 You don't work for a bank do you inky No, but I work in an industry where bonuses for the most productive workers are an important part of overall renumeration packages. I know how I'd feel if I were to be told that the performance bonus I'd worked my backside off all year to qualify for - and succeeded - wasn't going to be paid just because a part of the business I have no influence over had got itself into trouble. As I've said, if a bonus scheme has resulted in what appear to be un-just or un-deserved payments then that's the responsibility of the senior management team or board of directors who implemented the scheme in the first place. You can't penalise individual staff members for working towards goals they were given by their bosses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 That used to be called "doing your job" - the "job" your getting a wage/salary for doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 We're talking industry obs, not the fire brigade. Nothing wrong with incentives, IF they are earned. A good company will have incentives. But they shouldn't reward failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Industry? I remember my Dad getting a job in a local factory (having never worked in industry before): they were on a "bonus scheme". The first week nearly killed him as he struggled to keep up with his target output - then, he got into it and was beating everyone else on the line, and finishing by 3pm, then had to hang around for 2 hours doing nothing, having earned his bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 What industry are you in inky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 I know how I'd feel if I were to be told that the performance bonus I'd worked my backside off all year to qualify for - and succeeded - wasn't going to be paid Inky, you have totally strayed off topic. No one is interested if you have worked your backside off all year or if certain council workers are working hard enough. The post was about bank bonuses and those that are being paid to the same people who screwed the financial industry up in the first place, and which ever way you look at it they don't deserve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 No, the topic was about legitimately earned bonuses being witheld from ALL bank workers - regardless of their role within the business, and whether or not they had any part in the problems the banks have experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 What industry are you in inky I'm an engineer in the print and mail industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Do you print your own bonus money then post it to yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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