Higher Education -

[observer]

Amidst all the political turmoil over the costs of higher education, it would appear that sustained tantrums on our streets should have the effect of brow beating the Government into all sorts of compromises. However, want isn't need; and the students seem to be ignoring the fact that the number of students going to University has trebled since 1990, and with it, the imposition on the tax-payer. Yet another example of how NuLab led us into living beyond our means, and the need now for a period of austerity - and "austerity", if fair, will apply to everyone - to put it crudely, it's a s**t sandwich and we've all got to take a bite. So far from pandering to a vocal minority, perhaps MPs should consider the views of the silent majority; those folk who've never been to University but were foolish enough to get a job and start paying taxes, for a generation to be elevated to positions of getting degrees in media studies, fine arts etc; which may benefit the student but be of little use to the economy as a whole.

[asperity]

Hear hear Obs (Round of applause)

[fugtifino]

those folk who've never been to University...

 

It's never too late y'know.

[observer]

There is of course, the University of life, which tends to offer a more profound education!

[Bazj]

Not being a great drinker I wouldn't have fitted into University life.

[Sue Durnim]

Higher Education, the very phrase seems that it is quickly becoming out of reach for the majority.

 

It's less like Hi Ya and more like Bye Education?

[observer]

It's always been "out of reach" for most, assuming standards were maintained, but they havn't. Under NuLab, we've had a target of 50% of school leavers going to Uni; well that leaves the other 50% on the scrap heap from the start; and that's with a dumbed down exam system. But then they realised, that in the spirit of "everyone a winner", they may be to fick to become Lawyers, Doctors, Scientists or Engineers; so in came the Mickey Mouse subjects to accomodate the dross, and Colleges turned into Universities - so a huge expansion of our Higher Education system (and it's costs), without necessarilly an increased output of economically usefull professionals. And while all this obsession with Uni's has been going on, vocational training took a back seat, and became apparent with the notable shortage of qualified Plumbers, and folk having to ring Warsaw to sort their leaks out! And all this, in the name of Education, Education, Education - a triumph of dogma and theory over pragmatism and fiscal prudence.

[inky pete]

Two long posts from Obs and I agree wholeheartedly with every single word of both of them!

 

[Bazj]

When I left school in 1980 only about 4% of kids went to university, the rest went out and got a job and manufactured and installed and fixed things.

 

Now everyone thinks kids have a "right" to go to university, but forget to mention how they expect the good old working taxpayer to pay for the 40 odd % that want to go nowadays

[Dizzy]

Excellents posts Obs

 

Not seen the news today but apparently the yobbish students have been rioting on the streets again. Throwing paint, knocking police of horses and god knows what else.

 

If these scum are currently in college/university then they should be removed and if not they should be banned from ever being allowed further education.

 

They are certainly not doing anyone any good at all and they are also WASTING taxpayers money.

 

IDIOTS

[Victor]

I watched the news today and was totally disgusted by the student demonstrators. There were thousands of them battling with the police, throwing cans of paint and other missiles, starting fires. It was not a demonstration, they were RIOTING. The police should use water canons against the mindless yobs !!!!

[Dizzy]

Agreed but probably can't do that for Health and Safety reasons don't want to hurt the poor riotors eh incase they or mummy and daddy sue.

 

Me well I'd just blast the lot of them and worry about it later

 

Infact why aren't mummy or daddy giving them a slap... they must be trully ashamed of them.. and if not then I'd blast them too or send them the clean up bill

[observer]

Cos if Mummy & Daddy had ever given them a "slap"; they would have been jailed for child abuse! Peacfull protest by all means - BUT, the problem is, you only need a minority to steer the mob, and wanton violence and vandalism is what "mobs" do. SO, the poor Police can't win; if they go in heavy and hard, they are called thugs; if too soft, they're guilty of not protecting the public and property. IMO. Demonstrators should be put on notice, that any anti-social behaviour will be met with a draconian response, the State's yard dogs should be unleashed to go in hard and heavy, and anyone who doesn't wish to get their head cracked, should stay away. Not that I believe Students have a case anyway, such demonstrations merely detract from it.

[Bazj]

One thing I would do now is tot up the cost to the public purse for all the repairs and take that amount off the higher education budget and make students pay another ?500 on top of the ?9,000....

 

That may teach the mindless yobs that there are consequences to their disgraceful actions....

 

and as for attacking the Royal Car; whoever did that should be up for treason

[Sue Durnim]

and as for attacking the Royal Car; whoever did that should be up for treason

 

Having watch further TV footage on the BBC news, what amazed me about that incident, was the lack of security/police, the cars window was down and it was driving through a riot situation.

[Dizzy]

I agree with everything you both say... although increasing fees further would also affect those students who have NOT rioted and who are just as appauled by the mindless violence.

 

As for the royal car.....which for anyone who has not heard was attacked while Charles and Camilla were in it: .....

 

it was Kicked, daubed with paint and the rear window was SHATTERED.

 

This is an armoured car so to shatter a windscreen must have taken some doing.

 

The thugs (about 20 of them) set upon the vehicle with fists, boots and bottles, chanting "Off with their heads!" and "Tory scum".

 

http://latestnews.virginmedia.com/news/uk/2010/12/09/fees_protesters_attack_royal_couple

 

David Cameron has condemned the attack as "shocking and regrettable" and has vowed the protesters would "face the full force of the law".

 

But will they and how severe is the 'full force' in such instances ?

[wolfie]

Absolutely no excuse for what happened yesterday even though it was obvious that the student marches were hijacked by anarchists.

But there is a danger that democracy is not working when people vote for a party that then backtracks on all of it's election promises.

 

The Coalition has broken more promises in a shorter period than any ?administration in modern times.

 

The excuses that it is now a coalition, or that they didn't realise how bad it really was, are no longer acceptable.

[observer]

Sorry Wolfie, but the fact is NO ONE PARTY won the last Election; which only leaves a few options: 1) Dissolve Parliament and keep calling elections until you get a clear winner. 2) Try to form a co-alition (which tends to be the norm throughout Europe), which inevitably requires agreement on new shared policies, and involves renaging on individual election manifestoes by the coalition Parties. At least, in this instance they have an excuse for renaging on manifestoe committments in the face of compromise and an astronomical debt inheritance; but failing on election promises is by no means a new phenomenon by any Party.

[Sue Durnim]

Here?s and idea?

Let?s forget about politics and just employ people who know what to do and how to run this country, locally and nationally.

 

Make the whole lot redundant, from Councillors, MP?s to Bank Benchers, House of Lords etc.

 

Make them re-apply for their own job via an interview process.

(or a job re-evaluation, if it?s OK for the staff at WBC, then it should be OK for people in Parliament/local Gov?).

 

Then if not they are not good enough or too expensive to employ then re-advertise their positions in the local job centre and on-line etc. I am sure they will get lots of people applying for the positions, surely they couldn?t do any worse

 

Then employ the best person for the job irrelevant of their party allegiances on the basis they know what they are doing?

[wolfie]

I'll make a start.

 

PM and Deputy PM ........................ The Chuckle brothers.

Chancellor of the Exchequer ...........Ken Dodd

[Sue Durnim]

I'll make a start.

 

PM and Deputy PM ........................ The Chuckle brothers.

Chancellor of the Exchequer ...........Ken Dodd

 

wolfie, they would have to apply for jobs first, not just given jobs as they do now, it would defeat the object.

 

One of the best things I have heard from Ken Dodd regarding his non tax payment excuses, was that he did not pay inland revenue tax because he lived on the seaside!

[Egbert]

I'm far from convinced by these excuses that it is a minority of "rent-a-mob" thugs who cause the trouble. They looked and sounded pretty much like students to me (which says something about the way students look these days). If it is a minority, it is pretty big minority.

But their activities have made "peaceful protest" in the form of marches or demonstrations impossible and if genuine students have any brains they will have realised this by now. In fact, they should have realised it years ago.

They should find some more civilised way of protesting which cannot be hi-jacked by troublemakers. And again, if they have any brains, they should be able to do that.

If they can't think of something, they are not university material anyway!

And are street marches any good anyway? Yes, they make the front pages but does that do any good other than sell papers!

[observer]

Perhaps they could do more damage with a cyber attack?!

[Dizzy]

Gary has put a poll re the student rises and riots under the 'national issues' section.

 

I was origionally totally against the rises in student fees these riots and the actions of those students involvesd are swaying me the other way.

 

Ever stopped to think that maybe the government are paying the low lifes to riot... after all it's certainly taking the sympathy vote away from the poor students and making the public despise their every action.

 

Now there's a conspiracy theory if ever there was one

 

I do think though that the idiots who are rioting actually deserve to pay a damn sight more and should be banned from any form of further education... infact they should be forced to pay the fees of the students who are acting responsibly.

[observer]

Having observed events on the News, it appears that a portion of those involved in the violence/vandalism, are no more than moronic teenagers from chav estates, with a claim to be attending "college" - they could just as easily be at home at a football riot. Anyone with a modicum of sense and self preservation, wouldn't venture within 10 miles of one of these events. What they have done ironically, is call into question - not the education cuts - but the Police cuts!