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But which is worse? Something which does a relatively small amount of damage to a large number of people, or something which completely destroys the lives of a few?

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This is the pro-drugs lobby at work. Drink is, and long has been, a major social evil if you look at one side of it.

 

Ban alcohol and we would turn to drugs and the reverse argument would then be true.

 

Happy days

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Think this analysis was based on the overall damage done BOTH to individuals AND to society as a whole - not sure which other drugs results in gang of yobs kicking someone to death ? :?

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It's one of those articles where the results are what the report creator wants them to be!

 

Alcohol is without doubt causing problems amongst those who can't drink sensibly, but as someone remarked on the news last night, if a person has a glass of wine every day for 60 years it probably won't affect them at all - if someone does a line of coke (or whichever class A drug) every day, they may not reach the 60 years!

 

Is it right to compare in this way at all? :?

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my expert opinion.

 

100% alcohol causes more damage overall to society, but thats because society accepts it due to its legal status.

 

Having done a few drugs such as Canabis, Acid, Extassy, Coke I think myself and others like me are the only people who can fully appreciate the scale and possition of these activities in comparrison.

 

If alcohol was Illegal and had been througjout our lives we would pretty much only gain exposure from the media.

 

So if you imagine only what you see in the media of booze and its effects on society without your personal experience you would no doubt demonize it in the same way you(or the majority anti-drug opinionators) demonize the above drugs.

 

Because the media portray the above drug users as no-hopers, living in squats, needles on the floor, robbing from their mothers to feed their habbit then thats how society sees them.

 

The effect of all drugs including alcohol and cigarettes is a period of time when your emotions or perception are altered due to chemicals. The levels of these effects are measured by intensity and duration.

 

By these standards Heres my charts in terms of legality.

 

Cigarettes are the best as they have very short duration, very limited effect.

However they have negative society benefits and a link to long term health issues on the individual, (I do not subscribe to passive smoking theories). Because of the legality and relatively small effect, most people wont break many laws to subscribe to their habbit, apart from maybe littering and smoking in the work place. plus they are addictive, very addictive.

 

The Next

Canabis - Duration determined by mix (upto 4 hours), effects - DO NOT DRIVE...though you probably wouldnt want to as you find it difficult to hold focus however you do become very philosophical as I belive you see the big picture due to your inability to focus on details. Do you steal to feed this habbit, no, you never develop a addiction other than you may now start smoking cigarettes as they are more readily available, this creating a by-addiction.

 

Acid/Magic Mushrooms - Much like canabis however visual ability impaired, best to do something like dancing or just resting. (take a notebook and write down all your wacky ideas, they'le make perfect sense now)..Law? other than taking them you are unlikely to break any law to feed this habbit, you are unlikely to find an ounce of aggression in your body, infact you'll love everyone and think that wars are stupid and love is all that matters..love is actualy GOD !

Duration 10 hours. (negatives...you cant get this anymore..not profitable for the dealers).

 

Alcohol - Effect varies upon dosage, however your ability to judge your dosage will be impaired by the consumprion resulting in a snowball effect. Vision Impaired, Hearing Impaired, Judgement Impaired, can make you feel invincible, you will start loosing tact, inhibitions, and possibly due to these combine become easily aggitated or agressive. You are likely to feel that you could drive, handle heavy machinery, the more drunk you get the more confident you become until you hit the "Wall" or the floor, you then are likely to collapse somwhere where you are vulnerable to all the other people around you who have lost inhibitions.

You are likely to break many laws because you feel you can get away with it. long term health issues, addictive. You weill austroucise your family and freinds to feed this habbit. Duration till you pass out then comedown for at least 5 hours upon regaining conciousness.

 

Extassy- Like having a massive energy boost, resulting in twitching and the need to move, strong euphoria enhancing the need to dance also makes you feel a bit lovey like Acid. However its comedown is much like alcohol heavy, lethargic, headache.Duration 8 Hours

 

I'm not going to put coke on the list due to my inexperience, I have had it a couple of times, due to my having alcohol I judged it OK to have a line or two, but on the plus side for acohol maybe, booze also somewhat negates the effects of coke so I cant realy claim to know how much it affects you. Didn't do anything for me.

 

So there you have it for those of you who have never tried some of them, you have to expereince it to put it into context, all these pro-drug lobyists (particularly canabis) are able to make a rational comparison, if you have not experienced the above then based on my comparission you have to admit Alcohol comes out pretty bad.

 

and theres no use claiming the odd pint/glass of wine never hurt anyone I do it and I'm fine, well your right but by the same standards the odd joint, or (unpoisoned) E or ACID or Line of Coke when taken in moderation and in the correct environment didnt hurt anyone either. Its only when you read in the context of those who missuse ANY of the above that there is a prolem.

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...or even the families of the hundreds, if not thousands, of law enforcement officers, journalists and judiciary around the world murdered by the drug cartels.

 

...or the innocent - and sometimes not so innocent, although not really deserving of death - victims killed as a result of feuds between rival drug gangs.

 

...or the victims of drug money funded terrorism.

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There is little point in arguing about which drug is the most harmful. They exist and, for some reason which I can never understand, they are misused by a significant number of people.

There is no doubt about it that if alcohol was invented today it would be banned - and quite rightly so.

We cannot get away from the fact that the human race, by and large, is a pretty weak, spineless bunch of no-hopers and if that were not the case, there would be no market for alcohol, tobacco or drugs.

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Silverlady you will notice that I actualy put "(unpoisoned) E "

 

due to the lack of regulation these drugs have all sorts of risks, these risks exist directly as a result of the legislation and would be erradicated by legalisation except in cases of overdose.

 

this is no diffrence to alcohol, there are many documented cases throught history of illegal unregulated alcohol being poisonous. again if you focus only on the media reports you only see the hysteria created by those with the agenda to.

 

so my statement stands. A single correct dose of un-adultorated substance will not kill you.

 

I also notice you put 'just 1' in quotes, where I suspect you think as I do that every one of these relations try to defend their relations lifestyle by claiming it was their first time.

 

Inky Pete, your comments do not relate to my comments at all, as I am talking about the effects of personal proportioned usage. the creation/supply chain is a diffrent subject entirely which currently is run by criminals these criminals are only intrested in making money via any means nescisary

They are the same people who provide blood diamonds, slave trading, illegal arms trading, in fact whatever is convienient for their circumstances.

They did not select drugs to help people have a good time out of the goodness of their hearts. if their particulare drug was made legal worldwide tomorow, they would just switch product to one of the others such as guns, slaves.. you cannot regulate for these people.

 

Horace are you suggesting that anyone who drinks, smoke or takes drugs are weak,Spineless no hopers?

 

Because that would be 99% of the population including our armed forces, police, doctors, politicians...all of whome partacke in at least one on some occasion or more.

 

I can assure you I am none of your descriptions and I drink & smoke and have taken drugs. I think there were many members here who went to the beer festival...did you?

 

I have done all the above because I enjoy it, not to de-stress, not go forget or deal with issues in life. from this knowledgable viewpoint I can form valid opinions (in fact more than opinions practical experience), can you tell me your qualifications on this subject?

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No problem with alchohol in beer if taken in moderation, drinking water will kill you if you drink enough of it. :wink:

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Silverlady you will notice that I actualy put "(unpoisoned) E "

 

Legion, I wouldn't understand the difference between poisoned and unpoisoned, to me both are equally abhorrent.

 

In answer to your point about the 'just 1' in inverted commas - that is apparently all that is necessary to kill someone who is susceptible. I do not agree wih your comment about what relatives of victims have said. You are rather presumptuous if you say that they are not speaking the truth.

 

As others have mentioned, there are many innocent victims of drugs due to those who deal and those who partake and don't realise the consequences of their own actions when driving etc.

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With regard to the activities of "narco" traffickers - when prohibition was introduced in the USA (in the days of Al Capone), the same type of traffic went on - only with booze. So I guess if drugs are criminalised, the criminals move in. Believe California are considering legalising "wacky backy" - which presumably could hit exports from Mexico. :?

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Horace are you suggesting that anyone who drinks, smoke or takes drugs are weak,Spineless no hopers?

 

Because that would be 99% of the population including our armed forces, police, doctors, politicians...all of whome partacke in at least one on some occasion or more.

 

I can assure you I am none of your descriptions and I drink & smoke and have taken drugs. I think there were many members here who went to the beer festival...did you?

 

 

 

Can't answer that question in one go. But here goes.

 

No - I am not suggesting weakness if you drink. But if you drink to excess and cannot stop, then yes I am.

 

But if you still smoke, and cannot stop, in the face of all the evidence that it is harmful, then you are not only weak but also stupid.

 

If you have taken, or still take drugs, whether or not you can stop, you were probably introduced to them via peer pressure, which is a sign of weakness.

 

So, yes, it would not surprise me at all if 99 per cent of the human race, including armed forces, police, doctors, etc, are weak, spineless no-hopers. That is my view of the human race. We are a species with the herding instinct and it is not easy to be "different" without being considered a little odd by the rest of the herd.

 

Your argument that you drink, smoke and have taken drugs because you enjoy it, is a weak one. Enjoying something is not necessarily a reason for doing it - particularly if you know it is doing you harm.

 

As to whether I was at the beer festival (whichever beer festival you refer to) I don't know what that has to do with it. But the answer must be no because I have never been to a beer festival in my life. I do drink, but one or two pints would be the most I would ever drink so there wouldn't be much point in going to a festival would there?

I used to smoke, in my youth, but as soon as I became aware of the health risks, I stopped. Immediately and without any problem. It was something I didn't need and, at the time, could not really afford. It always amazes me that these days, the majority of people who smoke appear to be those who can least afford to.

What a pathetic bunch they look, huddling outside pubs and restaurants on winter nights yet still unable to stop.

 

So I still think they are weak, spineless no hopers. I think I should also add stupid to the list.

 

Nothing personal, by the way! I have many friends who smoke and drink to excess. I am just grateful I can enjoy life to the full without doing either. And as a member of the herd, I am also weak spineless and stupid.

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Alcohol is a drug, like all other drugs it can be taken in moderation, or it can be abused.

 

Cocaine is a drug, like all other drugs it can be taken in moderation, or it can be abused.

 

:wink:

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I will abstain from comment on this subject because it is a futile conversation. Drugs in every form have been around as far back as man has been, nothing will change that.

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I will abstain from comment on this subject because it is a futile conversation. Drugs in every form have been around as far back as man has been, nothing will change that.

 

Very true Mary. As has this debate. lol

I think what winds people up is when the talk of pulling down the standards of society hits the surface.

A lot easier to maintain the status quo instaed of pandering to the needs of a few.

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