Joining a union?

[Bazj]

So what do you recommend Baz, that they tug on their forlocks and thank the Master for worsening their conditions of employment. Thought we Brits were sheepish enough, compared to the Frogs.

 

Obs, try and disguise it as much as you like, but firemen striking on bonfire night is deriliction of duty which, in the ideal world would see them all being confined to the dole queue to be replaced with soldiers and new recruits.

 

As Algy says, just like the BA cabin crew and the postmen at Christmas, the only way they can get their point across is to screw the general public. Unfortunately, this one is a step too far

[observer]

So you recommend that they bend over, and hitch up their shirt tails then?!

[Dizzy]

It is irresponsible and bang out of order for the fire brigade to go on strike on bonfire night... lets hope their action does not result in anyone needlesly losing their lives eh

[Bazj]

So you recommend that they bend over, and hitch up their shirt tails then?!

 

If it means they don't go on strike on the busiest day of the year then yes....... it isn't like they are the busiest of the emergency services anyway is it?

[algy]

No Baz I don't believe they are the busiest members of the emergency services, go and stand outside the accident & emergency admissions at the general hospital and see how many ambulances pass through there in 24 hours I am not knocking the firemen they provide an excellent,efficient & very neccessary service but seem to have this macho image whereas the lads and lasses who crew the ambulances don't seem to get the high profile image that the fire bobbies have. Just my opinion.

[Bazj]

Algy, I agree that the nurses and the like as well as ambulance drivers/paramedics are the real hard workers in this country (my sister in law is a paramedic and I know how she works!)

 

Firemen are not the heroes they try to portray as everything is now shrouded in H&S and militancy. The coppers to me these days are just a bunch of short jumped up control freaks who have a complex about something so they join the Police to be able to shout at other people....

 

Thats just my opinion too, but I'll stick to it

[algy]

Your right Baz about policemen being short (as well as long) we had one peering through our fence the other day, for good reason I hasten to add, when I opened the gate to see what was going on he was smaller than me and Iv'e shrunk to 5' 9", when I was young I think the minimum height was 5' 10" or could have been 6' 0" I think we need Harry Hayes to confirm that one,

[observer]

Think they've heard this rhetoric before, as they are entering a dangerous enviroment while everybody else is exiting it. The responsibility for PROVIDING emergency services rests with Gov and Local Gov, NOT the workforce - and "the right to withdraw their labour" is the only thing that seperates them from slaves. I know these things are terribly inconvenient for you Baz, but I guess they have families to feed too. Think you'll find, at the end of the day, that this saga has been brought on by a senior Manager wishing to make a name for himself, change for changes sake, and of no material consequence to the wider public.

[algy]

Experienced that one before obs, the amount of times a new section manager attempted to 're-invent the wheel' and wouldn't listen to rhyme nor reason by those that had been through it before only to find further down the road that it didn't work the saying 'a new broom sweeps clean' rarely happens in a positive way.

[Sue Durnim]

If striking on certain days to highlight what the uions are fighting for is just good PR, otherwise it would not be a news story.

 

For me the emergency services are worth every penny and more, if you are lucky enough to have never had the need to use the emergency services, you may wonder what they are there for, however, when you are in trouble and your life, family or property is threaten, thank god that they are there, when everyone else is running from danger, the emergency service are running to towards the danger to confront it, putting their own lives at risk to save yours.

[silverlady54]

I agree, the emergency services do an excellent job on the whole, but having read all the pay and conditions details for firemen in London (I presume this is similar elsewhere) I'm appalled that they are thinking of striking. It seems that they are doing a lot less than in previous years because of the improvement in fire prevention, yet they don't want to change their working practices to reflect this, only working 71 days a year for a good salary, and also having second jobs.

 

No wonder they don't want to change!!!!!!! Where do I apply? Oh dear, there are no vacancies!!!!!

[Eagle]

There are too many instances of members of the emergency services bottling out of doing their jobs on H & S grounds to deserve your accolades, perhaps you are mixing them up with the armed forces.

Whilst most of them probably are brave they have to check before they can be brave and in some instances are not allowed to be brave resulting in fatalities that could be prevented.

 

Choosing high profile times to strike is only further alienating the public who don't like the attitude of the union leaders in the first place.

[Bazj]

the emergency service are running to towards the danger to confront it, putting their own lives at risk to save yours.

 

except of course after the 7/7 bombings; when all the witnesses so far have told how the firemen et al sat outside doing risk assessments for nearly an hour before they entered the tube.....

 

But listen, as much as I have a downer on the firemen, sure they would be handy if my house was on fire, but just supposing someones kids get killed on bonfire night because the firemen were striking on that particular day to get "good PR" and to "make a point"..... would that still be acceptable?

[Sue Durnim]

Baz J...

Is that not called planning? what is the use of dead fireman?

[Bazj]

Baz J...

Is that not called planning? what is the use of dead fireman?

 

Planning?????

 

What about all of the dead passengers that weren't dead while the firemen were planning but were dead by the time they had "planned"?

 

If it wasn't for the London Underground staff getting in amongst it and dragging out the severely injured and dying; there would have been even more dead ones....

[Sue Durnim]

Baz J, possibly true and thank god that they are people out there who are going beyond the call of duty to save another persons life, but firemen are human too and any danger zone needs an assessment and the services need to plan on what action to take and what firemen need to do to protect, save not only the innocent victims and sometimes the villains too, but themselves, like I say, what good is a dead fireman, if you don?t prepare to plan, you plan to fail!

[silverlady54]

There have been too many episodes where risk assessments have delayed action. Whatever happened to common sense and selfless action to save lives?

 

I don't recall that so many more emergency service personnel were killed or badly injured before all these risk assessments were brought in?

[observer]

All Joe Public needs/wants to know, is that they can dial 999 and get an appliance and crew asap; and with statutory times of attendance this is generally still the case (until cuts begin). Frankly, Joe Public couldn't care less what Fireman Sam is/was doing prior to turning up (other than through spitefull jealousy) to cut them out of a car wreck or save their precious house, and this is a 24/7 service at the end of a phone. Despite being undermined by H&S and Equal Rights legislation in recent years; it's a job requiring physical fitness and mental stability above the norm. Now in all walks of life, ever since (I think) the Roman Preatorian Centurion, Seutonius wrote about it; "new" managers come along, and in order to impress, embark on internal changes, largely for their own sake and NOT necessarily of any relevance to the public - changes in shift patterns are of no consequence to service delivery, as the service is manned 24/7 irrespective of times per shift. The reason given for the the delay in entry to the 7/7 incidents, was the concern (by managers, ever concious of H&S) of the possibility of secondary explosive devices (a tactic used by the IRA); now I'm sure we would expect them to ignore such possible risks to themselves; like the US firefighters at the Twin Towers or the Russian firefighters at Chernobyl, and sacrifice themselves for the public good, thus getting a postumous medal and the nauseating pat on the back from some senior politician after a photo op. Don't think they want "pats on the back", just decent wages and freedom from high flying bulls****ters messing about with their conditions.

[Sue Durnim]

There have been too many episodes where risk assessments have delayed action. Whatever happened to common sense and selfless action to save lives?

 

I don't recall that so many more emergency service personnel were killed or badly injured before all these risk assessments were brought in?

 

Thankfully working/safety practices have moved on, safety first! no need for more people dying, being brave or not.

 

This ain't hollywood, this is real life, emergency services and the armed forces all do assessments, plan and checks, it's common sense, there is no need for even more people to be added to the list of fatalities or injuries and make situation even worse.

 

I am not in or ever have been in the forces or emergency services, but can appreciate how difficult it must be to see people and property in danger and where time is of value to save lives and very difficult and split decisions have to be made, thankfully I do not have to make such decisions.

[observer]

A hero is someone who risks their lives KNOWING the risks; an idiot, is someone who risks their lives in ignorance of the risks.

[P J]

the only thing I have to say on this subject is that the Firemen did not choose the timing of this confrontation, it was senior management decisions which determined the timing. Right or wrong regarding cuts, changes and sackings the senior management determined the timing. No union worth its salt is going to wait until after the "unacceptible" changes are already in place before acting and therefore have a rather limited window in which to use its ultimate form of protest.

 

The fact that it could, may or will fall on Bonfire night is dreadful so perhaps the actions of the Senior management could be postponed until after the crazy season, makes sense to me.

[Dizzy]

So 'senior management' have no idea when Bonfire Night is then Says a lot about people in management roles then eh

[P J]

So 'senior management' have no idea when Bonfire Night is then Says a lot about people in management roles then eh

 

I'm sure they knew exactly when it was Dizzy.

 

 

 

Please don't consider me rude for pointing this out but that last post contained the addendum of an odd number of roll eye emoticons.

[observer]

Which implies that "management" wanted an emotional date, to ensure zero public sympathy for the Fire Union.

[P J]

Which implies that "management" wanted an emotional date, to ensure zero public sympathy for the Fire Union.

what a cynical assertion said the Tory press