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Geoff Settle

New Travellers Pitch in the South of Warrington

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Does anyone know anything about the new pitch in Warrington, alledgedley they have tapped into the water & electric supply causing havock to the utility services. Even mention of base units going down.

 

[ 17.11.2007, 20:06: Message edited by: Geoff Settle ]

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Originally posted by Geoff Settle:

Does anyone know anything about the new pitch in Warrington, alledgedley they have tapped into the water & electric supply causing havock to the utility services. Even mention of base units going down.

Where ??? Not noticed them/it anywhere but would like to know exactly where they are this time :o:o

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Try the old Grappenhall Lodge land on Cartridge Lane. Recently sold at auction, identity of the owner is being sought from the land registry, there is an assumption it is a "traveller" or somebody acting on their behalf. The council are on the case and are monitoring the site regularly. :wink:

 

PS With regards to causing "havoc" to local utilities.......some things do get exagerated.

 

[ 17.11.2007, 22:49: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

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Your spot on as usual it is the lodge, can anyone do a reccie and report back please?

 

It may be exagerated but there was a lot of strong feeling being expressed in Grappenhall the other evening.

 

[ 18.11.2007, 06:06: Message edited by: Geoff Settle ]

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I do regularly Geoff. I am aware of the strength of feeling as residents have been chatting to me and emailing. There were additional vehicles on site yesterday and some hardstanding has been laid. On Friday an electrician was on site.

 

The following is an official comment from Mr John Groves the Head of Development:

 

"Ladies/Gentlemen

 

I have reviewed the various e-mail correspondence regarding the above and have been kept up to date by Richard Watson and Richard Evans - further contact should initially be directed at either of Richard in the first instance.

 

Richard Watson has visited the site yesterday and today. I have noted Mr A's comments (commenting on Council powers to Mr B),and have to advise of caution in respect the implied scope for the local planning authority to act in anticipation of a breach of planning control or to use stop notice powers in these circumstances.

 

As a Council we have experience of similar situations, including circumstances where we served a stop notice as soon as we became aware of an unauthorised use of a site for residential caravans. A subsequent appeal against the notice was lost, planning permission granted and costs of the appellant awarded against the Council. The principle reason for the cost award was the inadequate research of the Council prior to service and inadequacy of investigation to ensure that those using the site were able to claim any special rights or circumstances allowing their use of the site. This was the case notwithstanding the fact that at no point during the service of the notice was any reference made by those on the site to the fact that they were travellers and were therefore potentially able to rely on special provisions within planning legislation. In any such case now, we would certainly need to establish whether or not occupiers met the formal definition of travellers, the scope for alternative accommodation, the consequences of eviction, educational and medical issues.

 

I would not wish, given the above to raise unrealistic expectations of powers in this type of case. There is certainly little scope to serve a notice which would be effective in securing immediate cessation of the use.

 

We will keep observation of the site - daily for the foreseeable future. We are trying to establish contact with the planning consultant who invariably represents travellers and gypsies in this area to gain intelligence and if necessary encourage completion of a correct planning process rather occupation and debate over enforcement powers. We will consider making contact with the gypsy community locally, but need to have some certainty as to those involved rather than making assertions for which we have no firm foundation at present. (Councillors will be aware of other cases where the threat of imminent occupation by gypsies has never materialised). We are undertaking a land registry search to establish ownership. This may not assist, but should provide a firmer basis for making contact with others who may be involved. This should be available tomorrow.

 

If necessary we will use enforcement powers but have to react to a breach of control rather than being able to pre-empt the actions of others. If a breach does occur we then need to assess and understand the circumstances in which that breach occurs if stop or enforcement notices are to be effective.

 

I understand the expectation that the local authority should have sweeping and immediate powers. In reality this is not the case and there will be greater benefit from considered action rather than hasty reaction.

 

I can provide assurance that all necessary resources will be allocated and the case given utmost priority."

 

[ 18.11.2007, 09:03: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

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If it's the same Mr B that I met last week then he appears to be on the case as are you. Gosh and I was thinking of going into Town and Country Planning many years ago. Sounds like a right nightmare just to prove what appears to be blatant, aledgedley etc etc.

 

[ 19.11.2007, 05:44: Message edited by: Geoff Settle ]

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Went to the residents' meeting tonight, there is a real strength of feeling....and rightly so. It is so wrong that what looks likely to happen will be allowed to happen. It just makes a total mockery of green belts and planning controls.

 

The latest I heard was that the person who bought the site would be prepared to sell it to local residents....for very substantially more than it was bought for.

 

[ 19.11.2007, 22:41: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

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Agree with you Paul with Judges siding with developers on both sides of the Ship canal as with Peel Hall what can the man on the footpath do? Well I'll be at the Right of Way Forum so I'll voice my opinion then. Are there any footpaths affected? Looks like a trip to the 3rd floor of NTH is also needed.

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No footpaths that I know of Geoff. This is a really bad situation, even talk that the council will let this happen so as to meet targets etc. for who now have to be called "settlers".

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It's not where I though then so where is Grappenhall Lodge? Can't figure out where you all mean.

 

Interesting stuff Paul :wink:

 

It is however quite common for traveller's to apoint a third party to buy land on their behalf, for a reasonable payment in return for their trouble :wink: (alledgedley).

 

Surely the council wouldn't allow somethin this to happen and the culprits to get away with it just to meet targets would they :o

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Slightly out of position,Geoff,it's in the next square left,south of where the bend in the road is.What a pity the council turned down planning permision for a house a few years ago.

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Mike is right, the map is giving the general location of Cartridge Lane when you do the search.....I'm guilty I sent the link to Geoff as I didn't get the exact coordinates from my sat-nav :D:wink: when I was up there.

 

At this rate it is going to become a tourist attraction.

 

With regards to dismayed's comments, I am aware of more facts regarding the purchase but am not minded to post them here. Suffice it to say, a legal transaction is a legal transaction.....and it is registered with the Land Registry :wink:

 

Land Registry

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Hi Paul

 

better link direct with Land Registry themselves is www.landregisteronline.gov.uk

 

a lot lot cheaper than the 'Land Search' lot and immediate downloads of info :D

 

[ 20.11.2007, 13:28: Message edited by: Dismayed ]

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A good bout of vigilantism is what is needed. The pikeys used to frequent the playing fields in Dallam opposite the church when I was a kid. Lots of dads handed over air rifles to the kids who went on target practice with caravan windows..... strange that they never came back!!

 

Seriously though, it disgusts me that these low-life vagabonds just run rough shod all over any law they wish and get away with it because of the inept and politically correct police and local authorities.

 

They should be threatened with either get off and bugger off or we impound the caravans until they prove rightful ownership and the means used to pay for them. HMRC always ask that of company directors when they have paid for something for the business... "and how was that funded sir and where did the money come from?"

 

They are not a race and so we can't be racist towards them. Being a pikey is a lifestyle choice and a way of life.

 

its about time we stopped being a bloody push over where these types are concerned?

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Originally posted by BazJ:

A good bout of vigilantism is what is needed.

No it certainly is not.

 

BazJ, I know you mean well, but with respect, at this stage your comments in the way they are posted are most unhelpful.

 

 

I've been researching the case law for the residents, they can prevail, it will just take the Council to have the guts to do what they need to and should have done already....and to do the right thing for the the residents, their paymasters!

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Paul,

 

with all due respect mate, these pikeys are above the law and whatever the council eventually try and do will not discourage them

 

Time and time again they invade our town and pitch camp up your side of town and on my side of town and time and time again they have to be given notice and time to move and god knows whatever else they are supposedly "entitled" to

 

If only the council would react to these situations in a more timely manner and go and kick them off wherever they decide to pitch up immediately... even if it means 3am in the morning.

 

Does every minority group in this bloody country have more rights thyan the law abiding population? rights which are more important to the damn politicians playing politically correct games than our rights?

 

As for being "unhelpful" I can only apologise but to be honest I couldn't give a bloody fig Paul. My comments are my own and I have chosen to share them on a public forum.... it is one of the few rights I have left thanks to this bloody Labour Government

 

And if you ever wanted information about the pikeys and thehuman rights act.... check out this gem:

 

http://www.travellerslaw.org.uk/gtlrc_archive/archived_pdfs/human_rights.pdf

 

[ 20.11.2007, 19:41: Message edited by: BazJ ]

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Originally posted by Paul Kennedy:

Thanks Dismayed, you are right I attached the wrong link :wink:

 

BasJ I agree with your comments 100% and travellers/imigrants/etc etc do seem to have more rights than the rest of us.

 

I do agree with Paul though as 'vigilantism' is not the right approach in this instance for obvious reasons.

 

Think the legal approach is the way forward and WBC need to get tough and show that this is not acceptable!

 

By the way if I had bought the land perhaps for a holiday site or home for all my relatives etc wouldn't I have had to apply for planning permission to install hard standings or even to have allowed more than a couple of caravans to be placed on the site? I'm sure I would have had to :confused:

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Of course you would dismayed. But you are a law abiding tax payer. If you had put down hard standing you would get about 2 hours to get it shifted.... unlike our travelling friends

I let it go the first time, but I am not comfortable with the word. Seems a tad derogatory.

 

[ 21.11.2007, 08:40: Message edited by: Peter ]

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Great picture Mike....and a grass tennis court as well.

 

I wonder if the Council issued a "Certificate of Lawfulness", it would allow the lodge to be rebuilt exactly as it was. Guess the original plans must exist somewhere. :wink:

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