observer Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 - could the Government's fervour for spending cuts become a form of National self mutilation? Cut public services = more unemployment = more demand for benefits and less tax take = desperation and crime = social anarchy without the numbers of police (cos they've been sacked too) to keep a lid on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 yes it could. hopefully it won't come down to that but it could happen. so rather than apportion blame to government either this one, the previous one or the next one. what can we do to alleviate the problem. looking for somebody to blame does not solve the problem it merely wastes time that could be better spent. i have no solution that is practical, lacking the knowledge of running a country, it would be pointless for me to say this is what we should do. yes i could say we should do this or we should not do that but in the end it all comes down to who pays for it. no matter what solution is put forward there will always be a downside to it and it will always be governed by the cost, either in monetary terms or in inconvenience to the people. like most people i will probably complain that the latest ideas are harmful as i will be thinking along the lines of how does this affect me now. the trick is to look ahead and try to see how will this affect me in five years time. will i be better off then even if it means i will be slightly worse off for the interim. oh well time for a break from thinking too much, my brain is starting to overheat and it is too early in the morning for things like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 The infuriating thing about this, is that it is a recurring cycle and those in power never seem to learn from it. Labour spends, Cons. repay the debt. For a "civilised" country? we don't seem to make much progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Perhaps we need the Lib Dems in Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 The problem is Pierre (as I've said as nauseum) is, that our political system doesn't lend itself to long term thinking or planning, either by the elected or the electors - we basically live for the moment within the life cycle of each Parliament. We sleep walked into this scenario with a Government that put it's Party interests (to get elected) above the general long term interests of the Nation - bit like the parent who won't say "NO" to his kids, and uses the visa card to get them them what the want, when they want it - thus eventually sinking into the reality of debt. As for the present crisis: Keynesian economics and the experience of the '30s and '40s, suggests that one needs to spend one's way out of a depression by stimulating growth, it's a difficult balancing act, as at face value, this would seem to worsen the debt. The '45 Atlee Government inherited a Nation ravaged by war with historic social injustice, inequality and poverty. However, with a US loan that took 60 years to pay back; they not only cleared up the mess, but arguably brought in social reforms (like the NHS), that in terms of a legacy surpass anything else in our history. SO, it can be done, unlike in '45 however, we can't borrow off the Yanks, as they and the rest of the world are in the same pickle; so whilst maintaining the long term aim of balancing the books (and ensuring this never happens again), by a war on waste and frivolous expenditure, we need to maintain our social infrastructure (police etc) and invest in those areas of economic activity that will provide growth (above our competitors) in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 1945? Now there's a thought. Bring back ration books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Nowt wrong with ration books, when your short of food, it's an example of exercising "fairness" in a climate of austerity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 We aren't short of food so rationing would be a bit pointless. What we are lacking is common sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Think he was refering to 1945 Asp; when we were short of food, due to the Kriegsmarine sinking 70,000 of your predessors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 And I think Peter was having a tongue in cheek dig at your idea of us going back to 1945 standards. Mind you if the politicians and Global Warmists have their way they will take us back to 1845 standards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Try 50/50 or phone a friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Not a question of "going back" ASP; merely one of learning from history. Fairness in society is a matter of principle, regardless of the economics or period in history. One only has to view the richest Nation on Earth, to identify in the midst of all that wealth lies a swathe of poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlady54 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Fairness in society can only happen when people put others first, not themselves. How do we turn the tide on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Completly agree with you Silverlady, Sadly I have no answers. And I can not ever see it happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Your right of course Silv; man is ultimately a selfish animal, like all animals bent on personal survival and wellbeing. This suggests, that some form of authoritive coersion is required to make folk "do the right" thing, the problem to date has been, that those in authority havn't practised what they preached! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Fairness in society can only happen when people put others first, not themselves. How do we turn the tide on that? The problem is SL; that the scum and dregs of society that carry out the majority of crimes also only think about themselves and their drink and drugs habits. They have no care for anyone else so why should the rest of us. We have seen many times how charity is thrown back in the faces of those who try to help the underpriviliged..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 If locked in a room with your pet dog, one will eventually attempt to eat the other - it's called the survival instinct - and ultimately kicks in with most folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 oh you are your unilateralism Kije....... let us be the first to do everything eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Historically, Kije and his ilk would have been Monks, turning the other cheek to the Vikings, and being raped and pillaged by them - nowadays they allow Brussels and the immigrants to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 As I have said before, Europe is not perfect, I would change it from within, You on the other hand want nothing to do with it, Even if it was the perfect democracy, you would want nothing to do with it, As you are afraid of being a minority. How democratic does that make you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Errm, "Democracy" - is that when you hold a referendum - don't get the right answer - so keep having referenda until the voters vote the right way?! The EU is a beaurocratic monolith, swimming in corruption at the top, draining us of our money to fill the begging bowls of new entrants, in order to create an economic super-power (Europa) to counter other continental super-powers (read Orwell's 1984 to imagine where that will eventually take us). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Obs, If the Eu was completely Democratic you would still not want to be in it would you Yes, it is a hypothetical question, but I don't think you would want to be part of it anyway. Why Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Simple - sovereignty. Power should be devolved down to the lowest optimum levels for service delivery; NOT hoovered up by Brussels beaurocrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Are you going to answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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