Dying in harness?

[observer]

Happy to work till you snuff it or do you deserve a period of retirement?

[Horace]

Lots of people DONT want to retire at 65 - I'm one of them and fortunately I did not have to.

But I don't think there is any compulsion being suggested at the moment. You will still be able to retire if you want to.

In the longer term, I understand the retirement age IS going to be raised and seeing as on average people are living longer this seems fair enough.

There is considerable evidence to suggest that people, men in particular, don't live too long after they retire anyway. Retirement robs them of their purpose in life so they just fade away!

[Lt Kije]

I am not against it in principle but I think it will be hard on the young, because it will slow the turnover of jobs. We already have a disaffected youth this will at to the problem.

[inky pete]

The "young" often don't start work properly until they're well into their 20's these days.

 

They can hardly complain if they don't make it onto the board of directors before the end of their 30's!

[Peter T]

With a little bit of thought and effort, those over 60 could be used to train the younger ones and could also be used to do other work, that councils and Government don't bother to do anymore. It would need some working out, especially the financial side.

[Lt Kije]

Inky

 

I cannot make my mind up if you were being serious or not, if old people stay in their jobs longer whether it be on the shop floor or the board room it will have serious consequences for people trying to get in the job market. We already have unemployed youth on are streets. as I said earlier I am not against it in prince able I just think the government have not thought it though properly.

[Peter T]

Unfortunately that problem arose some years ago, when firms started down sizing and also, as people left on redundancy terms, they weren't replaced, thus keeping the young out of work. No apprenticeships either.

[Lt Kije]

It might surprise you Peter, but I completely agree, We cannot give to the old at the expense of the young, just as we can not give to the young at the expense of the old, we must find away to accommodate everyone.

 

Can the UK afford to disenfranchise a whole generation be they young or old

[observer]

Yet again, Gov policies are becoming reactive and driven by events rather than seeking to shape events. Yes, we have a looming pensions crisis, yes we have folk living longer and yes, some professions have been allowed to dodge this one by working into senile old age EG: Judges/Politicians. However, there appears to be questions to ask before the lemmings begin their run: where are the jobs anyway? If the number of jobs are finite, it will block an already blocked younger generation. Have they looked at ways in which the skills and experience of the old can be passed on to the young via mass training programmes? Have they considered that some jobs are physically or even mentally demanding and require a medically and physically fit person, regardless of age - so who decides when someone is no longer fit for a particular job - would it be the patient on the operating table watching a senile old surgeon's hand shaking as he applies the scapel?!

[Egbert]

One point no-one seems to have touched on is that many employers find the older workers better and more reliable than youngsters.

[Lt Kije]

Egbert your point is irrelevant, If the old stay in jobs longer it will have consequences for young people. The government are not solving the problem they are just moving it.

[Evil Sid]

so what age could i expect to be paid a state pension.

 

as an ex civil servant my retirement age was 60

state pension was to be paid at age 65

 

now they are saying that you can stay in work as long as you want or can.

 

if i wanted to keep my retirement age at 65 would i get the state pension or not.

 

at present Mrs Sid will not be eligible for the state pension until she is 61 in stead of 60, will that change again or not.

[inky pete]

Absolutely serious. 20 years ago most young people were getting established in their career either via an apprenticeship or vocational training soon after they turned 18.

 

Now, with the numbers going to University and spending years drifting from one job to another while they decide what to do it can easily be 5 years or more later than that before they get onto the path they will follow for the rest of their working lives.

 

If they're starting out 5 years later then they are already "waiting" less time for older workers to retire at 65 than their predecessors were. If some of the older workers now start to retire a few years later, that merely redresses the balance a bit.

[Lt Kije]

Inky

 

How are they going to drift from job to job if their are no jobs to drift to.

 

Currently only 30% of school leavers go to university so 70% are looking for jobs or hanging around because they can't get one

[observer]

They'll move the State Pension age on, but that will be a mere pitance; so folk will be paying into inadequate pension schemes with inadequate amounts, increasing the time they need to keep working. As for the youngsters; where are all these jobs, these career paths for them to fall into?

[Egbert]

I doubt if too many people will choose to stay on after 65 anyway and those that do will largely be in occupations where it is appropriate because the skills and experience required are not available among the young.

I cannot see, however, that the fact that some employers prefer to keep older workers is irrelevant as Kije says. The reason this happens is because too many of the younger generations are unreliable. They can't help their inexperience because that only comes with time, but they could be reliable, they could be serious minded and show a willingness to learn. But so many today do not do that. They have only themselves to blame if people won't offer them a job.

I remember when I was in my youth, a wise old sweat said to me that when applying for a job to remember to put a bit of Brylcreem on. What he meant was to be smart. You don't find too many youngsters rolling up for interviews looking smart these days. You don't find too many who are articulate and can speak the Queen's English. What do they expect?

[Lt Kije]

Ok Egbert let me try another tac

 

If you say the young are lacking in experience, They are never going to get it unless you put them into jobs where they are going to get it, If their are no such jobs because the older people have decided to stay on they will never get it. And to honest I have not got a clue what you mean when you say unreliable. I work at an electrical engineering company, and when people have come for jobs at the firm they have always look smart.

[inky pete]

Inky

 

How are they going to drift from job to job if their are no jobs to drift to.

 

Currently only 30% of school leavers go to university so 70% are looking for jobs or hanging around because they can't get one

 

Currently one in six 18 to 24 year olds is out of work and seeking employment (from the National Statistics Office). Your 30% going to University is equal to about two in six (many of whom are also working as well to support themselves). That leaves three in six in full time employment.

 

That represents quite a lot of jobs being filled by young people - certainly considerably more than "no" jobs.

[Bazj]

I work at an electrical engineering company

 

I got out of that game Kije..... the average life expectancy for a contract sparky was 56 when I was doing it...... I fancied living a bit longer than that; still look on the bright side, there will be plenty of jobs for the youngsters to fill!

[asperity]

When I were a lad (many years ago) with a very large international shipping line, I used to read the company magazines going back years (there wasn't much else to do on long voyages in them days ) and I was struck by the details of the obituaries. Men who had worked at sea for 40 to 50 years and retired only to kick the bucket within 12 to 18 months. That isn't going to happen to me!! I refuse to let the employers treat me so shabbily - I will die when I say not when the employer decrees!!! (something wrong here surely - ED)

[Lt Kije]

But at the moment Inky people are retiring at 60 and 65, that wont be the case soon

 

Thanks Baz for the stats We are not that kind of sparkies, We repair and calibrate test equipment, mainly for the transmission industry, MOD and Special equipment on Power Stations.

[Peter T]

But at the moment Inky people are retiring at 60 and 65, that wont be the case soon

 

Thanks Baz for the stats We are not that kind of sparkies, We repair and calibrate test equipment, mainly for the transmission industry, MOD and Special equipment on Power Stations.

 

 

Very lucrative work. Especially with the MOD!!!

[Lt Kije]

Very lucrative work. Especially with the MOD

 

I couldn't possibly say Peter I will say it took a lot of work to get on their approved supplier list

[Peter T]

That is very true. And no doubt the standards are still very exacting.

[Dizzy]

..... the average life expectancy for a contract sparky was 56 when I was doing it......

 

Why was that

 

Should I be talking my son out of his 'chosen' career path... please