Gaza - 2 sides to every story

[asperity]

You never hear about this on Al-BBC:

 

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/05/25/fancy-restaurants-and-olympic-size-pools-what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-gaza/

[safeway56]

Wow !! The Gazans have some swimming pools and a few restaurants. Sheeeeeesh...have you also seen the pictures of the destruction visited upon them by those kind, benevolent Israelis ? Did you know that thousands of them are living in tents ? I suggest you visit the website of the Red Cross for a more balanced view of the miserable lives of Gazans.

[asperity]

You can't beat a touch of sarcasm to win an argument Safeway

 

There's always 2 sides to everything and here is the opposite side:

 

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the+Ministry/Behind+the+Headlines/Israeli_humanitarian_lifeline_Gaza_25-May-2010.htm

 

Israel is trying to stop Hamas (who actually kill more Palestinians than the IDF do) manufacturing rockets designed to kill Israelis, while at the same time trying to make the life of the ordinary Palestinians in Gaza bearable. But don't expect the anti-Israel media to report any of that. The truth is out there if you look for it.

[observer]

It's rather ironic that the people who have portrayed themselves as history's victims, suffering such atrocities as the Warsaw Ghetto; are now inflicting the same kind of treatment on Gaza - seems to prove that life's about role playing.

[asperity]

Get over yourself Obs, trying to compare what is happening in Gaza to the Warsaw ghetto! It's the obstinacy of the Palestinian leaders that is stopping any agreement. Stop listening to the media and do a bit of research yourself

[Jerry]

Was that 'check with the Red Cross' -- or the Red Crescent? Mailing for donations recently from the Red Cross have carried the Red Cross-Red Crescent logo. I think the head of the Crescent was until recently a sibling of Yassir Arafat's.

 

I just can't understand this love affair with (insert derogatory expletives here). Thanks Asperity. I read the alternate news sources that you kindly provided.

[safeway56]

If you want a superb example of the lying Israeli propaganda machine just YouTube Mark Regev who's job it is to tell huge porkies on behalf of Israel...Yes, he's the official Israeli spokesman and a bigger lying scumbag you aren't likely to witness. He's Australian but disguises his Aussie accent with a slightly broken English. Jon Snow on Channel 4 News completely destroyed him.

I don't expect you right wing loonies to take up the offer anytime soon.

[observer]

I'm not "trying" to compare the Warsaw Ghetto with Gaza Asp; there is a direct comparison: the Jews have built seperation walls and barbed wire, and are sealing in the Arabs in Gaza, with limitations on even emergency supplies; they've seized Arab lands (liebensraum!) and contrary to umpteen UN resolutions are proceeding to build houses for themselves on occupied territory. The right wing Zionists imo, are no different than the Nazis in their treatment of a weaker people. They are dangerously paranoid about their neighbours, albeit with a certain amount of historical justification, but if allowed to continue without some rational diplomatic reconciliation; this tinder box will eventually ignite - Israel is a small land area, so if/when the Arabs do produce nukes, it won't require too many to erase the promised land - problem is, we may finish up being roped into such an Armageddon.

[asperity]

if/when the Arabs do produce nukes, it won't require too many to erase the promised land:shock:

 

And you wonder why they are "paranoid" These are real threats by real loonies

[safeway56]

It's plain for all to see that the Zionists want what little the Palestinians have got left for themselves minus of course Palestinians. That's the reason for the decades of brutality they have shown to the real natives of this land. As for making peace with their neighbours, not a chance in hell. If they did make peace for what reason would Uncle Sam carry on sending them billions of dollars every year in *aid* Israel won't be able to prevent their neighbours from striking back forever...it's called progress. They are doomed but don't yet know it. Israel is a failed experiment and should be ceased forthwith.

[asperity]

There are twice as many Israelis (7,587,000 including 1,500,000 Arab Israelis) as Palestinians (3,761,000 divided between the West bank and Gaza). However if you think that if/when the Arab world/Iran decide to start lobbing nuclear weapons in that direction they will differentiate between Israeli and Palestinian you are very much mistaken. The Arab world doesn't really give a toss about the Palestinians, they are just using them as an excuse to continue the feud with Israel. If they did care about the Palestinians they would have facilitated a peaceful solution decades ago.

[asperity]

Myth:- Palestinians have no state: They do it?s called Jordan, and the state was created at the same time as Israel. Only back in 1923 Israel was called Palestine by the British who came up with the name. Palestine for the Jews, Transjordan for the Arabs. Palestine was the poor relation, mostly scrubland and desert, but the Jews set to work making the most of their patch and after a lot of work and well boring they started to make it lush and plentiful. At which point a whole bunch of Arabs decide they wanted what the Jews had created and renamed themselves Palestinians and started moving there en masse. Only a tiny handful of arabs lived in the area before, and almost all of those in west Jerusalem. Almost all the people describing themselves as Palestinians have no roots to the area their parents or grandparents simply moved there. Case in point, Yasser Arafat was Egyptian who like many Arabs decided to travel to Israel in his youth and call himself a Palestinian.

 

Pity they don't teach history in school anymore.

 

 

 

[observer]

There was no such thing as a "Jewish State" until the formation of Israel; the last "Jewish State" ceased to exist with Roman rule, being subsequently ruled by a series of Empires. Any "Jews" present in the area would only be distinguished from other Semites by their religion. So methinks claims to land go a little further back than "grand-fathers". As for any future conflict, the Arabs have proved incapable of defeating the Jews with conventional warfare, so one assumes nuclear weapons would substitute for military moral and training; and one could presume also, that any Arabs in Palastine vapourised in such a conflict would be deemed martyrs. One can only hope that if/when it kicks off - we are not drawn into it.

[asperity]

You could say the same thing about other states in the region which had been part of the Ottoman Empire until WW1. Iraq only came into being as an independent state in 1932, and Syria and Jordan were only established as states in 1946! If the Israelis hadn't turned the chunk of arid scrubland that was Palestine into a thriving modern democracy the Arabs wouldn't have been interested. Jealousy is a corrosive emotion!

[Jerry]

Hear, hear. Sanity and reason on a thread discussing the Arab and/or Muslim obsession with keeping modern or 'western' ideas out of their perceived ideological territory.

[safeway56]

The statement that Palestine before the Zionists stole it was a bare arid land is 100% Zionist propaganda. How do you think the Palestinians existed for hundreds of years in such a land? That myth is almost as ludicrous as the other often heard propaganda that Palestine was a land without a people for people without a land. The reality was that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were driven out of their homes and off their lands by Zionist terror.

There are people still alive today who hope to return to their homes in Palestine which were stolen from them by the squatters. You really should do your own research before you repeat Isreali propaganda.

[observer]

Hang on a minute Asp; wasn't this area described in the Bible as the "land of milk and honey", when Moses led "God's chosen people" to claim squatter's rights?! I hold no brief for either side in this dispute; both are motivated by irrational religious ideologies imo (as in most conflicts that threaten the rest of us); IF we're to survive such sectarian nonesensense, some form of rational global secular oversight is required to impose sanity - sadly, the UN isn't capable of such a role at the moment.

[asperity]

The statement that Palestine before the Zionists stole it was a bare arid land is 100% Zionist propaganda. How do you think the Palestinians existed for hundreds of years in such a land? That myth is almost as ludicrous as the other often heard propaganda that Palestine was a land without a people for people without a land. The reality was that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were driven out of their homes and off their lands by Zionist terror.

There are people still alive today who hope to return to their homes in Palestine which were stolen from them by the squatters. You really should do your own research before you repeat Isreali propaganda.

 

It's you who should be doing some research. First off, who are these mythical people the Palestinians? After the Crusades the land was laid waste by a succession of conquerors from as far afield as the Mongols, but none of these conquerers settled the land. There were many thousands of people living there including Jews as well as Arabs. Up until WW1 the Ottoman Empire claimed ownership of the land and raised taxes from the population. Starting in 1855 the Zionists began PURCHASING land from the Turkish government and the subsequent development of the land by the Jewish settlers attracted immigration from the surrounding Arab countries by people in search of employment. The so called Palestinian people are a mish mash of the decendants of these Arab immigrants. In fact the self styled leader of the Palestinian people, the late Yasser Arafat, was born and raised in Cairo! About 80% of the Israeli people live on land that was legitimately purchased by the Jewish National Fund which was set up in the late 19th century for that purpose. As I said before the Arab countries are not interested in the "Palestinians" except as a reason for eliminating Israel. If they did want the Palestinians to have a homeland, they have plenty of land of their own that they could spare! The western countries, including Britain, have poured $Billions into the "Palestinian" coffers and where has it gone? Hamas bank accounts in Switzerland most likely. Certainly not into improving the lot of the "Palestinian" people. I cannot understand the worlwide hostility towards the Israeli people who are only trying to improve their lives and who would, if they were allowed to, extend the hand of friendship towards the "Palestinians". But of course the ordinary "Palestinian" could only accept that hand of friendship on pain of being executed by Hamas for "collaboration". I do not, for one moment, accept that Israel wants to be living in a state of war.

[asperity]

Here is an article from Palestine Today, a Palestinian newspaper in Gaza, showing how hard life is in Gaza under the evil Israeli blockade.

 

http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-64161.html

 

Or maybe you think the Israelis have managed to hijack the Palestinian press

[Eagle]

safeway, would you have coped if Brian Bevan had been Jewish?

[observer]

Just on a practical note: it seems Gaza doesn't have a "port" capable of docking these larger ships, and would have to use fishing boats etc to off-load them - so perhaps a PR stunt from the beginning. However, in this poacher turned game-keeper conflict, it reminds one of the way the Jews entered (British controlled) Palastine at the end of WW2, going on to pursue their devine destiny by killing British policemen and soldiers, thanks to the Stern Gang.

[asperity]

Just on a practical note: it seems Gaza doesn't have a "port" capable of docking these larger ships, and would have to use fishing boats etc to off-load them - so perhaps a PR stunt from the beginning.

 

I think he's got it! By George he's got it!

Of course it was a stunt, and the world's media fell for it hook line and sinker, as did the well meaning useful idiots - sorry "peace activists" - who were conned into thinking they were going to the relief of Mafeking

[observer]

Merely an objective observation Asp; on the irrational behaviour of mankind, which sparks these conflicts off in the first place - all in the name of religious dogma.

[safeway56]

Israel has been settled on stolen Palestinian land...couldn't be simpler. The Israelis continue daily to steal Palestinian land and property. Don't believe me...ask the UN. Their claim to the land is under a covenant entered between God and Abraham...If you believe that I've a fine bridge you may be interested in purchasing.

If we all laid claim to lands which we THINK our forebears once had the deeds to 4,000 years ago the whole world would be in turmoil. I could lay claim to some of Germany and the whole of Ireland. Incidentally most of the Israelis aren't remotely related to the original lost 12 tribes..They originate in what is now eastern Europe. They are no more Semite than you or I...They are what they they look like...Europeans. Arafat was a Semite...the almost dead Sharon isn't.

What was Israel called prior to 1948..?

Zionists would say Trans Jordan British Mandate Palestine.

 

Palestine would suffice for most reasonable people.

[asperity]

Israel has been settled on stolen Palestinian land...couldn't be simpler. The Israelis continue daily to steal Palestinian land and property. Don't believe me...ask the UN. Their claim to the land is under a covenant entered between God and Abraham...If you believe that I've a fine bridge you may be interested in purchasing.

If we all laid claim to lands which we THINK our forebears once had the deeds to 4,000 years ago the whole world would be in turmoil. I could lay claim to some of Germany and the whole of Ireland. Incidentally most of the Israelis aren't remotely related to the original lost 12 tribes..They originate in what is now eastern Europe. They are no more Semite than you or I...They are what they they look like...Europeans. Arafat was a Semite...the almost dead Sharon isn't.

What was Israel called prior to 1948..?

Zionists would say Trans Jordan British Mandate Palestine.

 

Palestine would suffice for most reasonable people.

 

That is the most ignorant post about this subject yet. I will repeat my previous assertion that 80% of Israelis live on land purchased from the previous title holders. The so called "Palestinians" were not the title holders as they also came from outside the area and could not, therefore, be considered the title holders. You cannot have something which doesn't belong to you stolen from you. QED you are talking racist nonsense driven by some irrational hatred or fear of the Israeli people. As for people being (racially) who they look like, well I presume you are a member of the BNP because this is their take on the British people in this country who just happen to have darker skin than what they consider to be the norm to be considered British. Ignorance is bliss so I presume you are a happy person.