observer Posted April 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Not quite: the Boxers didn't want the heroin being forced on them by the British, in order to create a permanent (addictive) demand for our poppy export! Niether did Japan want to trade until Commodore Perry (USN) forced them into it with gun boat diplomacy. You'll notice that China, with it's command economy, is looking after China; is now the second biggest economy in the world, owns a third of US debt, and is rather selective/restrictive as to how much foreign involvement they have with their economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 The minimum wage was brought in to stop exploitation, it worked....... maybe for some, but for others it put them on the dole as employers merged jobs in order to save money. A lot of the jobs that pay the minimum wage don't justify that amount of money for the task, it is merely a feelgood soundbyte for the Labour administration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 Presume all the migrant workers that this Gov has allowed in, are all being paid the "minimum" wage?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 A lot of the jobs that pay the minimum wage don't justify that amount of money for the task, it is merely a feelgood soundbyte for the Labour administration If you can not live on awage, why would you work Baz, just for the feel good facter, and who would you have determine who should be paid what. and I would like to know what jobs that people who currently earn the minimum wage you think are over paid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 I would like to know what jobs that people who currently earn the minimum wage you think are over paid Well for starters, how about a 16 or 18 year old lad straight out of school and into a job. He knows bugger all about the world of work and brings absolutely nothing to the table. I have employed one lad off and on since he left school and gone through Uni etc....when he started he knew nothing about my business and was a passenger for a long time until he learned the ropes (so to speak) During the time he was learning, he was earning minimum wage but as a company we had to pay tax and NI as well on that minimum wage so the costs increase. What you also do is make every school leaver convince him or herself in their own minds that THEY are worth more than the minimum wage and so you get kids thinking that they are too good to do work at minimum wage level which in turn can drive up wage bills even further. There are also the many many thousands of jobs that had their rates increased wih the introduction of the minimum wage.... all that did was increase the wage, tax and NI burden on the companies that employed the workers. The same workers were previously quite happy to earn what they earned before the government stuck its oar in... what you have to realise Kije, is that paying someone a minimum wage is not the end of the story, there are tax, NI, holiday pay, SSP, Overtime rates.... the list goes on, all of which have to be passed onto the end users.... the customers I am not against the minimum wage per say, the problem I have with it is the blanket way it was introduced without taking into account the additional costs and the ever increasing rises the government give it. It should have been introduced for the over 20's so as to give companies an incentive to train staff and apprentices rather than look for already trained people and still pay them the minimum .... the minimum wage is now ?2.50 an hour higher than when I first came out of my time as an electrician and not long after that I was married with a wife, child and a mortgage to worry about.... not where the next stripe of window tint for my Saxo is coming from!! (just as a note, when the minimum wage was introduced, we employed about 16 people all together and not one had to have their wages increased.... although I was tempted to reduce a few!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 We're back to the catch 22: employers wish to pay the least possible in wages in order to make a profit and remain competitive. Employees require a decent wage in order to live. Add to this, competition from foreign workers, who are used to lower wage levels, and you have a built in spiral downward for British workers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 6, 2010 Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 Maybe single people should be paid less for doing the same job as those who are married because they have less outgoings and more likely to spend it on frivolous things like beer and fags!! !!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 Think they invented family allowance to cover that - but they could save some money in these times of austerity, by making such payments conditional on a marriage and birth certificate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Doesn't everyone have a birth certificate Obs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Yes, but apparently nowadays, they don't require the father's name on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Baz the minimum wage has gone up because the cost of living has gone up, so what did you want to pay your trainee, how much do you think he was worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Mr Cable got totally and absolutely taken apart today on the Politics Show. Yet again the Lib Dems have been shown to be the liars that they are. And if lying isn't bad enough, to make it worse they are sanctimonious with it. I have never, ever been impressed by Mr Cable, my judgement of people has been proved to be right, yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Paul If you are so good with your judgement of people, can you give us your judgement of Mr Cameron. Please remember when writing that this is a family site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Which one would you buy a used car from?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 Kije, a 16 year old school leaver with no experience should be on no more than ?2.50 - ?3.00 an hour. It is the employer doing them a favour in most cases believe me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 Kije, a 16 year old school leaver with no experience should be on no more than ?2.50 - ?3.00 an hour. It is the employer doing them a favour in most cases believe me!! Not sure about your figure, but it would also give them less to spend on drink and drugs, and stop them getting a car until they had some maturity. They need to learn the hard way instead of getting things given to them on a plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 Horse and stable door - they get more than that in pocket money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 National minimum wage for a 16 - 17 year old is actually ?3.57 per hour (rising to ?4.83 when aged 18)..... if they are under 19 and on certain apprenticeships meaning that they are not entitled to the minimum wage blah blah blah In contrast though FOREIGN WORKERS from outside the UK who are legally working in the UK are entitled to NMW regardless of how long or short a time they stay here for and regardless or whether their employer is based in the UK or somewhere else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 So Baz what you are saying is that you expect the parents to carry on supporting them, I don't know about your business but you are supposed to invest in your employees. It was employers like you that gave rise to the unions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 So Baz what you are saying is that you expect the parents to carry on supporting them, I don't know about your business but you are supposed to invest in your employees. It was employers like you that gave rise to the unions. There you go spouting nonsense again Sgt.... nowhere have I said that I pay less than the minimum wage, in fact if you read my past posts, I pay more than the minimum - a lot more to be honest and even gave my lads an 8% rise last year..... What I am saying is that kids straight out of school have nothing to offer my company so we tend not to employ them as they are too expensive for the return. However you may not understand that bit as no doubt you are an employee.... in at 8:00, home at 4:30 and forget about work till Monday morning..... That is the difference between employing and being employed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Baz I work away from home, I work weekends, I finish when the job is done. And don't give me that crap about employer and employee, as an employer any extra money goes straight in your back pocket and adding value to your company, as an employee you don't get that so there is not the same incentive to work the long hours. I am one of three that own share in the company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Nope, any extra money gets taxed to pay for the dole scroungers and houses for immigrants..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 not quite Baz; seems the big earner nowadays are kids; the more you have, the more your benefits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 15, 2010 Report Share Posted April 15, 2010 Nope, any extra money gets taxed to pay for the dole scroungers and houses for immigrants..... If that was true Baz you would stay at home and claim benafits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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