t'internet - good or bad?

[LymmParent]

We're talking about children five to sixteen years old being given a computer and internet access to do their homework and surf as their wealthier peers do, instead of working at a great disadvantage and having the message rammed home from day one that they are educational wastage.

 

We already have a population of "chavs" as you persist in calling them, who think watching Jermey Kyle is a career path and a pay rise is what you get for giving birth or faking a back injury. Somebody has to let their kids know there's another option.

[kevofaz25]

The issue for me is that the laptop is being provided without any contribution from families- a token contribution of just a couple of quid a week might give the right message that things like computers have to be paid for.

[observer]

LP your own last para, summarises the client group we're discussing; and one only has to view the Kyle show to get a flavour of the type of folk - now, are you telling me, that these neanderthals are going to be overcome with a wave of educational inquiry upon accessing the net? They've had access to books for centuries, but evidently prefer a comic or the tabloids, assuming they can read in the first place! PS: Just noticed that a recent survey states that 1 in 10 school students believe the Queen invented the telephone!

[Peter T]

LP your own last para, summarises the client group we're discussing; and one only has to view the Kyle show to get a flavour of the type of folk - now, are you telling me, that these neanderthals are going to be overcome with a wave of educational inquiry upon accessing the net? They've had access to books for centuries, but evidently prefer a comic or the tabloids, assuming they can read in the first place! PS: Just noticed that a recent survey states that 1 in 10 school students believe the Queen invented the telephone!

 

Thought that you didn't believe stats????

 

What's the attraction about Kyle? Judging by the number of times you have mentioned him lately, you must ba a big fan!

[observer]

just like a visit to the zoo!

[LymmParent]

Kev, I agree, but the kind of families who will get the laptops are the ones where there is genuinely not a spare quid to be had OR the kind where every spare quid goes down the boozer. It rankles with me to give the latter any kind of extra handout, but they are lousy parents and as a result, their kids miss out. The scheme compensates to a tiny degree for a situation that can't be resolved unless we focus on the aid to kids, not the subsidy to the wasters.

 

Obs, same point. These computers only go to families with kids at school, and whilst I don't believe that 100% of those kids will turn out professors as a result, I do think that for a lot of them, there will be an improvement in self-esteem and a greater interest in learning. If some of that rubs off on a few parents, even better. But what price are you putting on kids? How many kids lose interest at school and drift off to vandalise cars and drink underage? How many of them do that because they have no educational support at home, and feel as if they don't matter anyway? Give them access to online homework support, which many teachers offer, plus the vast resources of the internet and you show them a different world. A world where you can be or do anything if you work at it. Most of all, give them a laptop and prove that SOMEBODY thinks they are worth something, even if their parents don't.

 

Peter, Obs loves JK andhis guests, because they confirm all his worst expectations of human beings!

[Peter T]

Even obs says that the chain must be broken. maybe this might be a start.

The trouble being, is that things get put in place and are then left to run themselves or not, as the case maybe.

An example being the Skatepark (Vicky Park). It was opened by a poster who shall be nameless, as an International venue.Regular events were going to take place.

What happened? Nothing!!!!!!!

 

And this is the main problem with all initiatives. They move on to the next"brainwave".

[observer]

Think you'll find that the skate park, was in response to the efforts of local Councillors, who were responding to the demands of local youths, who'd taken to using the Town Centre art work as a venue. The fact they couldn't organise to sustain it, is down to them - perhaps they all went over to lap tops?! Not often your right Peter, but your wrong again! Ask these kids who hang around street corners with their peers, and they'll tell you "we're bored, there's nothing to do" - suggest something constructive, like team sports - and you'll just get a few grunts in between explitives. It's wrong of course, but they have no self esteem, niether did their parents or even grand-parents; they just exist as bottom feeders, perhaps hoping for a go on X-factor or a lottery win - sad reality.

[LymmParent]

They have no self-esteem BECAUSE their parents had none. If nobody steps in, they will never have any hope or ambition or belief in anything better. Nor will the kids they produce in ten or twenty years' time.

[observer]

Well we seem to agree on that observation; BUT as to the cure, it would seem that the cycle can only be broken by some form of external interference/intervention. Now I've made tongue in cheek reference to sending such kids to public school - but perhaps that's the only kind of answer.

[LymmParent]

I don't think it is. They'd be arriving as charity cases to find themselves regarded as second class citizens by kids whose births were materially lucky. I reckon five years of being regarded as a chav on charity would probably finish the job.

 

Sometimes, it's the small things. One friend works in a school where around half the kids come from deprived backgrounds. The school has set up free breakfasts as well as lunches, loan uniforms from unclaimed lost property and even has one boy who arrives in his own clothes and changes, because he knows if he takes home the uniform items, his mother will sell them to buy dope - he is loved and fed and clothed, not an abuse case, but that's how it is in his house. They've seen massive improvements for the price of a bit of toast and a spare jumper, because kids respond to the interest shown and uniform means they're not different.

 

I say try anything that even might help. At least with the internet they get a window in their cell!

[Peter T]

Think you'll find that the skate park, was in response to the efforts of local Councillors, who were responding to the demands of local youths, who'd taken to using the Town Centre art work as a venue. The fact they couldn't organise to sustain it, is down to them - perhaps they all went over to lap tops?! Not often your right Peter, but your wrong again!

 

That makes TWO of us. Perhaps you had a hand in its failure because it was Community based.

It was Latchford Forum that did the spadework. A joint effort involving the Forum, the councillors, a Community Development Officer, (You remember them? something else you didn't support!) and the Youth and schools.

When the Forum found the initial money from Wren, the council jumped on the bandwagon. A steering group was formed, which was council led with members of the Community and skatepark users. (I still have the minutes)

A couple of suggestions were being looked at, including a cafe/shop in the pavilion which I believe reached the tender stage. Then the whole thing just collapsed and so the international use never happened. Same happened with the Mersey Valley Project.

Now years later, they are repeating the same exercise. Ironically, I doubt they will find the money for their plans, unless it's the watered down version.

Perhaps it was the Orford Park project that took the officials away.

Victoria Park became just another backwater. Left to its own devices, same as when Labour threw it to the Lib-Dems.

 

obs, you spend TOO much time in denial.

[observer]

Think you have an exagerated opinion of Latchford Forum and of the willingness of youngsters to pursue, what has turned out to be a fad - so let's await the next fad - possibly lap tops! LP: there's nothing new in seperating youngsters from their families or from a bleak enviroment: the better off middle classes and service families have used public schools for decades; tempory seperation can occur with Duke of E award schemes, the Yanks have Summer Camps etc; alas it might be problematic to provide a comprehensive system of similar schemes - as few would volunteer for police checks to supervise, and you'd have the red tape of H&S risk assessments to avoid litigation from parents - so a no win situation. But I'm afraid some form of seperation is the only way to break the cycle of life on the Chatsworth Estate!

[LymmParent]

What if we rounded up all the parents and set them on a month long course in parenting skills and self-respect, whilst the kids got to stay with families where people make a proper job of parenting? Couple more lurking round here over the summer wouldn't make much difference!

[observer]

I can appreciate your search for an answer LP; and perhaps there's some merit in the idea of trying to improve things through better parenting - but assuming you could introduce a regime of mandatory (cos otherwise there'd be few volunteers) "parenting skills courses", would course failiures have to have a termination or be strerilized? You can see where this is going, if results are required. Perhaps the only major major social shift can be attained through the blank sheets of young and impressionable minds - give me a child of 7 and I'll give you the man etc?

[Peter T]

Think you have an exagerated opinion of Latchford Forum and of the willingness of youngsters to pursue, what has turned out to be a fad -

 

 

You are so "out of touch"!!!. The skate park is just as busy as ever.

It is governed by the weather, and if you and your colleagues had had any sort of vision, you would have put a roof on it.

But of course, you were TOO busy fighting amongst yourselves to care what went on.

The good thing about Latchford Forum, is that it is NOT run by politics as the rest of the Forums are or were. (Although one party keeps trying to take over)

[LymmParent]

I can appreciate your search for an answer LP; and perhaps there's some merit in the idea of trying to improve things through better parenting - but assuming you could introduce a regime of mandatory (cos otherwise there'd be few volunteers) "parenting skills courses", would course failiures have to have a termination or be strerilized? You can see where this is going, if results are required. Perhaps the only major major social shift can be attained through the blank sheets of young and impressionable minds - give me a child of 7 and I'll give you the man etc?

 

They'd go home and there'd be reports from school to see progress. Where nothing changed, something else could be tried. A lot of people you describe as "Chavs" are just clueless and lack self esteem, so they go day to day, getting by. Take them out of that situation, give them a bit of self-respect and see how many blossom. You can't lose, can you?

[Bazj]

Peter, Obs, now we see why politics at local government level is a ridiculous idea.....

 

Too many cases of people with their own agendas and bitter back-biting and the perpetual blame that seems to last forever.... and we wonder why bugger all gets done in the town.

 

For donkeys years Labour ran this town and the Toris/Libs did nothing but complain and say what a good job they would do if ever they got into power.... they finally did and then have spent the majority of their time in office blaming Labour for the state they left it in and done nothing to put it right!!

 

If only we could get the whole town to read some of the politically biased posts that come on here for the local area (not the national stuff because we all have an opinion on that one!)

[LymmParent]

Be fair, Baz, they raise the Council Tax every year with due diligence, no matter how busy they are selling off country homes and buying jaffa cakes.

[observer]

LP; their scope is limited by the knowledge or rather lack of it, and by the means to fund any ambition they may aquire. There's nothing to say, that folk with a low IQ cannot be educated or that the educated all have a high IQ - it's a matter of securing the right enviroment to sustain a culture of learning. Pierre: what are you moaning about, if it's still well used, it means it was a success by the Council at the time - if you want a roof, get onto the Council of today!

[Peter T]

obs, if you stopped making statements that weren't true, I wouldn't comment.

It was NOT a fad as you stated. It is still an ongoing success, despite the lack of committment from our politicians.

[LymmParent]

If he stopped making statements that weren't true, posting on here would drop by about 94%

[observer]

Pete, if you stopped wimping into the flow of a thread with your pet obsessions, I wouldn't need to correct you!

[Peter T]

Pete, if you stopped wimping into the flow of a thread with your pet obsessions, I wouldn't need to correct you!

I can support my comments with paperwork. Can you?

[observer]

No need, I'm not obsessed with the subject!