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Should the burka be banned?

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I think yes, our ladies are made to cover up in certain countries and as a mark of respect they do so, I think its only fair that the people that condone the wearing of them reciprocate when they come here. Baseball caps and hooded tops are not allowed in many shops here already so why are they?

 

Also it is a security risk, we dont know for sure who is under there, or even in fact if it is a woman...for all we know it could be a man with a bit of eyeliner on with 10lb of semtex strapped to his chest, and I cant think of an easier way to smuggle illegal immigrants around the country right under our noses.

 

It is an archaic system in my opinion and I'm surprised the ladies themselves put up with it in this day and age...it must be hard for them to cover up and walk around looking at our beautiful women in their summer clothes ( when we get a summer that is. )

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I'm surprised the ladies themselves put up with it in this day and age...

 

I very much doubt that they have any say in the matter Larry

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Banning the burka in public won't increase freedom for ladies forced to wear one. They will just be forced to wear one and stay indoors, taking away the little freedom they have. No zealot is going to allow his wife/daughter/sister to leave the house without one, ban or no ban. Like it or not, the burka is the only thing that allows some women access to education or a social life.

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Maybe if these women could no longer access such things as a social life, benefits or education whilst wearing one it would encourage them to tell their menfolk to get stuffed!

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True, there have been a couple of incidents of domestic violence which - simply because they've involved Moslems - have been called "honour killings". We've also had plenty of non-Moslem husbands killing wives or daughters who defied their wishes in one way or another - but that just gets described as straightforward murder.

 

But what we don't have is a Sharia state which denies women any legal rights and uses the full power of all state bodies to enforce their subjugation.

 

Any UK Moslem woman could leave and divorce her husband on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour if he tried to insist on her wearing a burka against her own wishes. She would then also have the usual legally enforceable claims on the financial assets of the marriage, and for on-going support for any children.

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Under Sharia law a woman can actually file for divorce in precisely the same way. The Taliban and similar hardline individuals don't actually represent Islam terribly accurately. Any more than the Catholic Church banning women priests represents the whole of Christianity.

 

What's the difference though between a Sharia state that dictates to women what they may and may not wear and a UK one that does the same? If we are on rights and equality, there is bog all difference between enforcing the burka and banning it.

 

If we are on security risks, then by all means ban ALL face coverings in relevant areas, but let's not pretend that a lady wearing a veil to buy fruit in Tesco is a security risk. It makes more sense to ban rucksacks, sunglasses, beards and baseball caps than burkas.

 

And just on a point of practicality, where is the sense in spending millions to pass a law banning burkas? 2% of the population is Muslim, half of them are blokes, most of the women don't wear burkas anyway. We're banning an item of clothing worn by maybe one person in 500? Who can then put on a perfectly legal balaclava or motorbike helmet and go about their business as before.....

 

I honestly don't see any advantage that outweighs the cost, problems enforcing it, upset and worst of all, the fact that it will feed the extremist propaganda that we in the West are intolerant and single out the faithful for persecution.

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If you want to live or visit a country you abide by its laws. Simple.

I visited a muslim country and had to cover up to visit certain areas which I was happy to do to abide by their laws.

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As long as the burka is considered to be acceptable dress in public then any person who asks a women wearing one to uncover her face for either security reasons, or so that her identity can be verified risks the full ire (and often threats of violence from) the radical islamic fundamentalists.

 

Any police officer, passport control officer, security guard, check-out operator, bank teller or bar staff can ask a person to take off any other form of face covering - a balaclava, motorcycle helmet or hoody - and refuse to serve them or allow them entry if they decline. But if they try it with a burka they get accused of intollerance and religious insensitivity for simply trying to do their job.

 

Burka wearing Moslem women do make up a tiny proportion of the general population, so very few people would actually have their "freedoms" affected by a ban, whilst a much, much larger number of people would feel safer and more comfortable as a result (especially since the ban would probably have to be applied to face-coverings generally and so would include hoodies)

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But remember that one of the guys who killed sharon the police officer in Leeds escaped abroad wearing a burkha so the fact that it has been done once undoubtably means it has been done before and will be done again.

 

Ban it

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Gone off women's rights then? Now we need to tell 30+ million women what they can and can't wear because it is SAID that one man once used a burka as a disguise to get out of the country? Have we an example of a burka being used in the UK to cover a bomb?

 

I've no patience with the PC cr*p. If you are passing through customs or in an otherwise restricted area, then you uncover your face or you go home. End of. But no Muslim lady will have a problem going into a side room with another lady and removing her veil whilst her identity is checked. It's about modesty, and it is MEN looking at her uncovered face that is the issue. A tiny bit of consideration will do more for security than a hobnailed ban. I have the right to a female officer for a search, so there must be one on duty.

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LP, that would mean every bank, pub, chemists, supermarket, ticket office and even bus, train and police car in the country would have to have a "separate room" and a female staff member available at all times to enable the identity of the burka wearer to be checked against their photo ID's when performing certain transactions. Who's going to pay for all that? even if it were phyiscally possible!

 

We have certain standards of modesty and decency in this country, and certain acceptable forms of dress which stem from them. Those standards already "tell 30+ million women what they can and can't wear", and if we're on the subject of womens rights - wasn't it you that claimed the burka was forced on unwilling women by men on pain of "honour killings"?

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LP, that would mean every bank, pub, chemists, supermarket, ticket office and even bus, train and police car in the country would have to have a "separate room" and a female staff member available at all times to enable the identity of the burka wearer to be checked against their photo ID's when performing certain transactions. Who's going to pay for all that? even if it were phyiscally possible!

 

We have certain standards of modesty and decency in this country, and certain acceptable forms of dress which stem from them. Those standards already "tell 30+ million women what they can and can't wear", and if we're on the subject of womens rights - wasn't it you that claimed the burka was forced on unwilling women by men on pain of "honour killings"?

 

Supermarket? Chemists? Ticket Offices? Bank? Pubs? Where do you shop? I've never been asked for photo ID in any of those places. Immigration desks, customs, police stations - they all have to have siderooms and female officers anyway. On account of my existing right to be searched by a female officer. Cost implications are nil. Even if you were right, every single one of the places you list has a manager's office or staff room and at least one female member of staff. We're only talking about a bit of courtesy for a small number of ladies.

 

We do not have clothing bans in this country. I can wear dungarees, hotpants, a bikini, biking leathers or a clown costume to shop at Tesco. The only law we have on the subject says you have to cover up your gender specific bits most of the time so as not to offend. The French don't even have that!

 

And what I actually said about honour killings was that your suggestion of women simply telling hardline Muslim men to get stuffed was patently idiotic when we already had "honour killings" over disrespect and disobedience. Never mentioned burkas.

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I can wear dungarees, hotpants, a bikini, biking leathers or a clown costume to shop at Tesco.

 

now that I would like to see! :lol:

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if you look under 25 you will be asked if you have an acceptable form of id when buying age related products such as tobacco, alcoholic drinks,lighter fluid and glue.if you do not have suitable id then you will be refused purchase on those products as the shop person selling them to under age people will certainly be fined if caught,probably dismissed and the shop owners will also be fined and may have their license to sell such items taken away. if it is a small shop which relies of the sale of such items to keep it viable it may end up closing and all staff employed would be out of work.

 

ok so maybe that does not apply to burka wearers (not sure if they are allowed to partake of alcohol or tobacco products, ignorance on my part which will no doubt be corrected in due course :wink: )

 

the other thing is if you do wear a burka then any photo id would have to take in this modesty idea and thus show the person wearing the burka and so you would only see the eyes. in which case any burka wearer could carry the id/passport and claim to be who it said on it.

 

as for what people wear to shop at tesco, or any other shop for that matter, i will not worry. having worked in a shop i have seen people wandering in in all states of dress or undress and learnt to keep a straight face and not to stare rudely or laugh out loud, no matter what their attire. one i will mention was around early december 2008. the temperature was well below freezing and a chap wandered into the shop wearing a pair of trainers, tee shirt and sports shorts. i did not laugh but i did shiver a bit. 8)8)

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Devout Muslims don't drink, smoke or gamble. I don't think there are any rules on glue or knives though. So either a person has to be willing to provide ID or they don't get the glue or knife. That's the same for everyone. It doesn't have to be photo ID - driving licence or credit card will do. You only have to be 16 for solvent based glue or knives.

 

Photo ID without veil shouldn't be an issue though, because the lady has control over who sees it. As with the burka, it's about men not seeing her face.

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Has anyone seen that fella/woman/thing thats sometimes stands outside HSBC bank on Bridge street in the all white robes and berker? Its about 7 feet tall and looks very very creepy....everyone gives it a wide berth and I think it scares the kids, it sure creeps me out.

 

They should be banned, I'm sure if we all decided to wear balaclava's that the govt would ban it straight away, these people have no respect for OUR ways in OUR country, I mean its not like we want them to walk round with no pants on is it.

 

Is it really too much to ask to show their faces? If the jealous a$$ husbands cant cope with the thought of other men looking at their wives then they shouldnt get married in the first place. God gave us eyes to look with.

 

These women have had their identities kidnapped and are imprisoned in cloth, and heres me thinking kidnapping and false imprisonment was illegal in this country :roll:

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"our ways"? In what way does putting a veil over your face contravene the Great British Way? Brides do it, ladies at the races do it, ladies at funerals do it, belly dancers do it, some churchgoers do it every Sunday. By choice. Some ladies choose the burka for themselves too.

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