Arctic warming

[asperity]

US Weather Bureau Report

 

The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.

 

 

The report above was from November 2, 1922 as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post.

 

Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose

[safeway56]

This doesn't prove that human activity is to blame. The weather has always been changing since the earth was a cloud of spinning dust.

[asperity]

Exactly my point Safeway

[Peter T]

This doesn't prove that human activity is to blame. The weather has always been changing since the earth was a cloud of spinning dust.

 

Correct, as is the earth.

[Lt Kije]

It actually proves nothing at all

[Bill]

I don?t think Asperity?s post is trying to prove anything other than to point out that climate change and it?s affects isn?t anything new. I suspect back then people didn?t loose much sleep about it but these days we couldn?t have the same report without it being pointed out that we are to blame and of course now obligatory images of glaciers collapsing into the sea.

 

Good post Asperity!

 

Bill

[Evil Sid]

i believe that it is getting so warm that the inuit's are asking for government aid to buy refrigeration plants to store their food.

 

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5BA37O20091211

[LymmParent]

I don't know whether human activity contributes - and neither does anyone else. Not for sure. So isn't it more sensible to act responsibly over mucking up the planet - on the basis that the worst case outcome is we've wasted our efforts cos we weren't a factor? If we go the other way and carry on being wasteful and irresponsible, then the worst case outcome is a planet we can't live on any more because of our own stupidity.

 

One of those cases where it doesn't matter who is actually right, if you ask me.....

[asperity]

But wouldn't it be more sensible to spend all those billions on insulating our houses (and gritting the roads ), and making sure our OAPs and the poor don't freeze to death, rather than wasting it on vain attempts to control the uncontrollable (the climate) which we may, or may not, be having an influence on?

The vanity of politicians is mind boggling

[LymmParent]

It would be better to spend all the billions on bloody wine gums than another summit like the Copenhagen washout! The arguing is the biggest waste of everything....

 

Yes, insulate houses, upgrade light bulbs, replace old boilers, reduce bills for everyone and prioritise the vulnerable. All of that is part of the plan for the "we are responsible and we must change" lobby. The current campaign is "drive 5 miles less per week", which is by no means draconian either.

 

Everything being suggested (reducing CO2 emissions, reducing waste, improving recycling, reducing consumption of everything by buying local where possible and thinking before buying or replacing) is reasonable, even if global warming is a figment of the mad scientists' imagination. Can't hurt, can it?

[asperity]

Exactly right LP, but our Minister for Climate Change would rather give billions of pounds of our money to Indian millionaires to build coal fired power stations and steel manufacturing plants in India than spend it at home helping the people of this country cope.

[LymmParent]

But that's a different discussion. We have to decide, as individuals, whether we make an attempt to do our bit, or blithely continue as we have. National and global efforts are not factors in that decision. Two wrongs and all that.....

[Lt Kije]

And what will you do Asp as an individual

[observer]

Asp is correct: this Gov is wasting ?billions on foreign aid, when it could be spent on tangible responses to extreme weather changes and waste at home - the vanity of mankind appears boundless in their belief that they can conquer nature - rather than doing what our ancestors have always done - adapt and survive.

[Lt Kije]

So thats what you'll be telling the Grand Kids Obs, Never mind kids so you can not see a Polar Bear for yourself because I would not change my life style, but you can still see pictures of them in books, Adapt

[asperity]

And what will you do Asp as an individual

 

For your information "LtKije" probably a darned sight more than you do. Despite the fact that I pay full tax to central and local government I only actually live in this country for 4 months out of the year. The rest of the time I live on a ship which, through taxation of the shipowner, also pays tax to central government and port dues to all the British ports we call at. The result of this is I'm only producing a third of the pollution from electrical generation that you are for starters, while contributing more than my share of the tax burden. So please take your "holier than thou" attitude and stick it where it belongs. You really are a sanctimonious prig

[Bazj]

So thats what you'll be telling the Grand Kids Obs, Never mind kids so you can not see a Polar Bear for yourself because I would not change my life style, but you can still see pictures of them in books, Adapt

 

Polar Bears have been extinct in Warrington for a while now. You can still see them in books and on TV, but if you really want to see a real on you have to go to the pole to do that..... what, you don't fancy doing that this weekend? Me neither. Lets look at the pictures shall we?

[observer]

We could watch some dinosaurs on TV too!

[Lt Kije]

So your ship does not produce any green house gas Asp, How many miles do you get per mile, I read somewhere that ships are worse than planes

 

Holier than thou I don't think so, please give all the facts Asp, I remember you telling me there's no tax on fuel

 

Baz I point seems to have gone right over your head, I will not burden you further

[Bazj]

Nothing can get that high Sgt. I get your point but as a point it is truly pointless. How many on here have ever seen a polar bear in the wild? Would anyone apart from a few greenies be that bothered if polar bears diappeared?

 

Animals disappear all the time, a whole race called dinosaurs disappeared and yet no one seems that bothered. After all, they can't blame man and stick up taxes for that can they?

[Lt Kije]

Fair point Baz

 

Let me put it another way, What gives you the right to diminish the Worlds different species, Have they no right to exist on this Planet, The Polar Bear was just an example there are many endangered species, It would be a shame to see them all die out because of our excesses.

[Bazj]

Fair point Baz

 

Let me put it another way, What gives you the right to diminish the Worlds different species, Have they no right to exist on this Planet, The Polar Bear was just an example there are many endangered species, It would be a shame to see them all die out because of our excesses.

 

Indeed there have and indeed it would be a shame, but should humankind suffer because of a few polar bears? Do you really think that they would respect your right to survival iof you came across one on the Tundra? No, it would rip your bloody head off.

 

Just remember that every year, hundreds of NEW species of plants and animals are found, you could argue that they now exist because of mans excesses (as you put it) and reducing or reversing those excesses may put the new species at risk.... is that fair too?

 

Just because a polar bear is white and looks fluffy and nice as a cub doesn't give it a right to survive over an Amoeba sized organism created because of mans existance.... nature isn't always clear cut you know.

[Lt Kije]

Yep You only need to go to a tip to see how seagulls have benefited, but I think it would be a safe bet that more are going extinct than are benefiting.

[Bazj]

Yep You only need to go to a tip to see how seagulls have benefited, but I think it would be a safe bet that more are going extinct than are benefiting.

 

maybe so, but species are being found at a pretty startling rate too... back in 2006, the WWF (greenie types, not wrestlers) issued the following:

 

Scientists have discovered at least 52 new species of animals and plants this past year on the island of Borneo. The discoveries, described in a new WWF report, include 30 unique fish species, two tree frog species, 16 ginger species, three tree species and one large-leafed plant species.

 

and that is just in one country!

[Lt Kije]

All good points Baz

 

But are any of the 16 species benefiting from man, the tree frog for instance needs trees, Although Borneo has lots of trees they are very good at chopping them down. how long has that tree frog got left.