observer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Yawn - obviously the solution I suggested doesn't meet with your approval - but it's a solution never the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 They've got options: the easy one is to try to get to the UK under a truck - the harder one, requiring some bottle, is to remove the current corrupt leadership in these countries and create some stability Another example of you not putting your brain in gear Obs, where do you suggest they get the money to over throw the current leadership and where would they get the arms. and as alot of Somalia is in the middle of a drought where are they going to get the water to grow things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Think they're all kitted out with AK47s and RPGs, and plently of ammo - trouble is, they're too busy fighting each other as clan/gangs to invest in an ideology. As for infrastructure investment -don't Western Countries have overseas aid budgets - now I wonder where all that money is going?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Yawn - obviously the solution I suggested doesn't meet with your approval - but it's a solution never the less. I think you'll find it mentioned in one of my earlier posts. I referred to it as "doing nothing". I have no problem with it - having no interests in shipping or sailing, and in fact, I'd prefer it to the guns and bombs option. It's not technically a solution, because it doesn't actually solve anything. However, I'll give you some points because it's your first post that doesn't involve killing or maiming anyone and I think that should be encouraged! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Killing and maiming? Don't make me laugh LP; since 1945 there's only been one year in which our military personel havn't lossed members killed in action - over that time you've had umpteen "wars" culminating in the latest futile adventure in Afghanistan - so don't tell me about "killing and maiming" - address your remarks to the UN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Think they're all kitted out with AK47s and RPGs, and plently of ammo But the people with the weapons are the corrupt people in power, hence they came to power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Killing and maiming? Don't make me laugh LP; since 1945 there's only been one year in which our military personel havn't lossed members killed in action - over that time you've had umpteen "wars" culminating in the latest futile adventure in Afghanistan - so don't tell me about "killing and maiming" - address your remarks to the UN! Yes, Obs, every time there's a problem, someone decides the solution is "shock and awe", and then in go our lads..... and before long, out come our lads in coffins. Pirates in Somalia, Afghan rebels, you name it there'll be someone saying the troops should be there. Oh, sorry, that was you, wasn't it? You'd think someone would try to find a better solution, wouldn't you? Still, if they did, they'd get shouted down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 About right Lp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Where pray, did I say troops should go INTO Somalia; I watched "Blackhawk Down" too you know! In relation to "pirates"; we're talking about rather primitive craft, with pirates equiped with side arms; being taken out by heavy MGs, naval gunnery, attack helicopters or even air strikes, from the relative safety of modern armoured Naval vessels - hopefully that will sink in! In the case of the Somali gangs or Clans, THEY are parochial powers, at each others throats, clearly without any political idea or overview - resorting to petty extortion, cos we are allowing them to get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 A slight problem here is the actual size of the Indian Ocean however. It is easier for a small vessel to find a large one (especially when the large one has, by International Regulations, to broadcast it's identity and exact position, course and speed by it's Automatic Identity System (AIS) transmitter while the the small one doesn't but can carry a receiver) than for a naval vessel to find and identify a pirate vessel. They don't fly the skull and crossbones flag any more, or have firebrands burning in their hair (yohoho and abottle of rum mateys arrrgggghhhh). So while the naval forces are looking for a needle in a haystack the needle is finding a haystack in a field. Also remember that the pirates are using the same type of craft as legitimate fishermen are using to go about their daily business of survival so you can't just sink all small craft willy nilly just in case they are pirates. And you can't arrest them for carrying firearms because they could claim they need them for protection against.....yes you've guessed it......PIRATES. Unfortunately in the real world things aren't as cut and dried as some people would like to believe. Also there is no legitimate government in Somalia to overthrow, a small point but perhaps relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Believe a leaflet drop along the coast confining vessels to within their national waters would be sufficient warning. Modern satelites can read a newspaper from upon high, so I presume can spot suspect craft. Submarines can see without being seen. and armed Q-ships can be used as bait. As soon as any hostile action is identified - just open up and sink 'em. - sorted. Won't happen of course, not for technical reasons, but for so-called moral ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Believe a leaflet drop along the coast confining vessels to within their national waters would be sufficient warning. Modern satelites can read a newspaper from upon high, so I presume can spot suspect craft. Submarines can see without being seen. and armed Q-ships can be used as bait. As soon as any hostile action is identified - just open up and sink 'em. - sorted. Won't happen of course, not for technical reasons, but for so-called moral ones. A leaflet drop declaring war? Certainly a first, Obs. But at risk of repeating myself, threatening people who have nothing to lose is not going to work. It really doesn't matter how elaborate your gun and boat fantasies become, or how clear your warnings. What do YOU think pirates are going to do instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Obs I don't think you have any concept of the area you would have to cover with your leaflet drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 One will do, ask them to pass it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeway56 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Cruise ships are equipped with audio *bombs*. One of these pesky pirate craft attempted to hijack one last year off East Africa and scarpered PDQ when the cruise ship employed the weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Obs I don't think you have any concept of the area you would have to cover with your leaflet drop. Don't pick on him, Asp - it's a very endearing idea. We send them all a polite note and they stop. Perhaps we should tell them that if they continue to be bad, we will write to their mothers next and then they'll be sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Not a first LP at all; think you'll find it was extensively used by the RAF in WW2 and as late as the Iraq War, prior to shock and awe. Such a warning is merely a nicety to excuse what would follow - which, for the pirates - wouldn't be very nice. Asp; think the airlift capacity of the current naval assets in the area, can cover the main population areas involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Not a first LP at all; think you'll find it was extensively used by the RAF in WW2 and as late as the Iraq War, prior to shock and awe. Works well then..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Think the idea was to minimise civilian casualties, but once you start throwing ordanance around it tends to get messy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Can Pirates read, Does a failed State have Schools to teach Pirates to read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Think they "read" the Quoran, or have it "read" to them?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Qran I think scans better Obs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 "u" bet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 And the people that read it to them are the ones with the power, and will only read o them what they think they should no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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