LymmParent Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Compromise? Like asking smokers to step outside or something? I think if you did that, they'd start whining about it and saying you were infringing their rights.... just guessing, of course! Landlords, barmen, delivery men, waiting staff, glass collectors, cleaners, entertainers, cooks.... all these people HAVE to be in the pub, cos it's their workplace - and jobs do not grow on trees these days, so many have no other options. Smokers don't want to compromise - otherwise they'd be quite content. Their own homes are not regulated in any way and nor is the 90% of the Earth's surface that is NOT an enclosed public space or workplace. All the non-smokers have asked for is approximately 10% of the world to be guaranteed smoke-free. Seems reasonable to me. And we had no smoking areas for many years, with smokers taking not a blind bit of notice, so don't bother trying to tell us that they'd respect the boundaries now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I used to occasionally nip out to the pub round the corner for the last pint but since the ban I just don?t do it now Bill So you didn't really go for a last pint, you went for the company and to stand in a smoke filled atmosphere. Well unfortunately for you and many others it's not going to change so get use to it. Smoking in public is anti social. If you want to smoke, stay at home or stand outside. If you want a nice pint then go to the pub. If the pub closes down so be it. That will be for many reasons which include cheap supermarket booze, the smoking ban, pubs failing to adapt to change and establishments like Weatherspoons serving food and drink all day etc. Out of interest I visited friends in Widnes last night and we walked up to the local pub for a few pints at about 10pm. The pub was packed as was the smoking area outside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Think perhaps your phrase "if pubs close down, so be it"; sums up the anti attitude: then perhaps, the regulars can go drinking and smoking in the parks with the kids?! Ooops forgot - they'd need to get a CRB check! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Well unfortunately for you and many others it's not going to change so get use to it. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Beagles used to be forced to inhale smoke. That was banned. It has taken decades for non-smokers' rights to be elevated to match those of the Beagle. You'll have to pardon me for finding objections to that somewhat inappropriate. I think Dis is still waiting for your list of pub closures..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 How many of the 79% of people who do not smoke actually support the ban in pubs and clubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Keith I do go to the pub primarily for the company but certainly NOT to stand in a smoky environment as you suggest. In fact I would never ever choose drink in a heavily smoke filled bar because even for a smoker there are limits. Even before the smoking ban though, if I thought my smoking would offend anyone I?d quite happily either not smoke or just go outside. The thing is that not all smokers are inconsiderate morons, just like all drinkers are not necessarily drunkards. If anyone objected, I would never dream of telling them to ?get used to it!? that?d just be plain bad manners. Odd though how it seems ok for the anti smokers here to say this. I?ve no big issue with the ban although I think a compromise solution could easily have been achieved. That way you could tell me to go to a pub where smoking is allowed rather than stand out in the rain. As for Dizzy?s list of pub closures, I don?t think that?s what she asked. Those that have closed though tend to be traditional ?boozers? that couldn?t provide decent if any facilities for smokers. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 "even for smokers there are limits"..... well Hell, Bill, if you don't want to stand in other people's filthy smoke, why do you think the rest of us should stand in yours?! Sums it up really.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I think Dis is still waiting for your list of pub closures..... That wasn't actually one of my questions LP... but yes I am still waiting for any other answers especially to Q1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 my quote just a thought (and not a serious one at that) but maybe it is a cunning plan to cure the binge drinking, closing down all the pubs and then blaming it on the smokers/anti smokers obs quote the rational option was for a compromise, alas the health facists don't want that. And it seems their next crusade is already emerging, with the release of a report suggesting 90,000 folk will die from drink related disease over the next 10 years - so, perhaps they've killed two birds with one stone with the pub closures?! Hmmm. now the question is is obs agreeing with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Sid! Phew..... we all thought you'd been "disappeared"! Is Obs agreeing with you? Not on purpose, only unwittingly - as he does most things.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 hard to keep the undead down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 took a different route Sid, but seemed to have arrived at the same conlusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 "even for smokers there are limits"..... well Hell, Bill, if you don't want to stand in other people's filthy smoke, why do you think the rest of us should stand in yours?! Sums it up really.... It's NOT compulsory LP!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Beagles used to be forced to inhale smoke. That was banned. It has taken decades for non-smokers' rights to be elevated to match those of the Beagle. You'll have to pardon me for finding objections to that somewhat inappropriate. I think Dis is still waiting for your list of pub closures..... If it wasn't for the Beagles, you wouldn't know that it was bad for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Beagles were clamped by the neck with their faces in funnels blowing smoke all day. Their vocal cord were routinely cut so they made no noise. After a brief and miserable lifespan, they were killed and dissected. This went on for years and years and years. Still think you're funny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex padgate girl Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I have read and digested this thread and cannot go away without saying my piece. Yes i am a smoker, not a drinker as drinkers go. I only drink on special occasions and christmas. I enjoy news years eve out and about. I am apauled that the brewries did not stand up and demand that there were non smoking pubs and smoking pubs. I don't believe they could be split as the smell would seep through. Some of LP s comments made me laugh as they are very one sided and not very nice to smokers. I do think that trying to stop someone smoking is the wrong way to go. Its my choice and i know the risks. Do we stop fat people from going to Maccy dees. I pay my taxes and have probably paid more than any non smoker for the right to have NHS treatment. Can the same be said about people who dangle from bungi ropes or parachutes, should we stop them doing what they enjoy. As for the beagles that just makes me sick to the stomach even to this day. It should never have happened but LP what about the soap you use do you or any of us know how that is tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeway56 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I compile and present pub quizzes and have done for some years and those who say that the smoking ban hasn't directly led to thousands of pubs shutting are talking out of their 'arrises I'm afraid. You only have to travel around the area and witness the many pubs which are now barred and shuttered to know this. The cut pricing of alcohol by the supermarkets was happening years before the smoking ban and yet the pubs weren't struggling as they are now which caused the many smokers to simply stay at home and enjoy a drink in the comfort of their own homes. The anti-smoking fascists will have a shock when they make their annual New Years Eve pilgrimage to the pub to find the place is no longer there. I'm sure if the landlords of the country were polled and asked the question whether they would like the smoking ban lifted or restricted to a smoking room on their premises the answer would be a resounding *yes*. The same killjoys who grabbed your fags have now got their busybodies eyes on your beer. They claim that you are drinking far too much and the cost of alcohol should be at least be doubled to discourage your harmful habit. Big Brother would seem to be nirvanah the way this country is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Your right of course Safe, but such common sense won't impact on the lifestyle facists - and it won't change under the Tories either. The best they can do is repeal the anti-hunting laws that the NuLab puritans spent 7 parliamentary years concocting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 So by throwing their toys out of the pram, smokers are single handedly destroying an entire industry? I don't think so. "Cheap booze has always been available from supermarkets"?? Not when I was growing up it wasn't but by the same logic you cite in your post safeway56; if supermarkets were to be banned from selling cheap booze, all the smokers would head back to the pub because they wouldn't have the drink at home? Of course increased rents by greedy pub owners and breweries have nothing to do with pubs shutting..... Smoking in pubs was banned for health and safety reasons for the benefit of the workforce, however the powers that be are still allowing drivers of lorries and vans to smoke at the wheel despite those too falling under the directive as being an unlawful place to smoke. Maybe if the rules were enforced right across the board, stay at home smokers may not feel so victimised!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 The police can't enforce most of these frivoulous laws EG; driving while using a mobile - the only reason they've succeeded with the smoking ban is because they've included landlords in the prosecution scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex padgate girl Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 The price of drink has got a lot to do with pubs closing. The supermarkets have a lot to answer for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Of course it has.... personally I have never been one for spending night after night in pubs as I always prefered to drive than drink but the last time I bought a bottle of Budweiser at the Hoop and Mallet if was nearly ?2.60 I can buy 15 bottles of the same stuff from ASDA (when the have their special deals on) for a tenner...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 ?3.70 a pint in mancehster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I compile and present pub quizzes and have done for some years and those who say that the smoking ban hasn't directly led to thousands of pubs shutting are talking out of their 'arrises I'm afraid. You only have to travel around the area and witness the many pubs which are now barred and shuttered to know this. Here we go again. Not a fact, not a number, not a single bit of research, but you're at my throat. Well, I did my own research. I didn't go to the Government figures, or the anti-smoking lobby. I went to the organisation that serves the pub trade only. The British Beer and Pub Association press release states that a total of 1402 pubs closed in the UK during 2008 and their head bod quoted "spiralling costs, falling sales, fragile consumer confidence and the impact of the smoking ban". In that order. And he went on to say that urban pubs were hardest hit with a 2% closure rate. So 98% are still open and rural or semi-rural pubs did even better. Not quite the picture smokers are painting... and the BBPA is specifically pro-pubs, so they'd not downplay anything. That press release was to publicise the hard times landlords are having. All businesses are facing the first of those three factors and closure rates are similar in most sectors. We're in recession. And once again for those who haven't caught up - the ban was not targeted at pubs. It was public spaces and workplaces. Half the industry workers should be forced to smoke and half protected? Think of them as Beagles for a second and see if you then understand why that's not acceptable..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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