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asperity

Wondering why pubs are closing?

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We are being governed by an elite class, who's trivial and superficial agenda is being played out with these bans - while fundemental social and economic issues go unaddressed - hence the slow spiral into anarchy. :shock:

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I'd have said pub closures had more to do with the fact that you can buy a lot more beer for your money almost anywhere else, then sit on furniture not soaked in other people's spillages and enjoy company you've actually chosen instead of listening to the same boring drunks as last week whilst two teenagers spend so long swapping tongues you actually start to worry they'll turn blue.

 

However, that's just me. Perhaps there are people who enjoy paying three quid a pint and having Mad Ronald join them for a discussion on how the Germans bombed his Granny's Pie Shop, interspersed with Smelly Eric weeing down his trouser leg and Barfing Stan living up to his name and filling the spittoon yet again..... after all, there's always the dartboard, as long as you don't mind the waft of the Gents, thinly disguised by the fifteen citronella fresheners glued to the doorframe..... or you can totter up the road to the new place and drink CamelWee lager from ?7 hi-tech bottles whilst perched on a chrome toadstool watching satellite baseball in widescreen with people called things like Jerome and Tancred..... :twisted:

 

 

 

Each to his own, as they say!!

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Well I?ve just got back from quite an enjoyable night out at the pub and it?s far removed from what you describe there. I met and had a chat with a couple of old work colleges that I haven?t seen in over fifteen years, talked with a few total strangers about completely irrelevant things and enjoyed a couple of pints of the type of real beers that supermarkets just don?t sell.

 

For me, the social side of going out is far more important more than just drinking a pint or two. What?s more, I think there?s a wide enough variety of pubs these days that meet the needs of everyone so you don?t have to contend with the smelly Eric?s of this world.

 

On the subject of ciggies, I had two this evening but I don?t really mind going outside, provided the pub has a comfortable area for people who want to do this.

 

Bill :)

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It goes further than pub closures LP, it's the slow erosion of our liberties by the people who, for reasons only known to themselves, feel the need to tell the rest of us how to live our lives. Don't smoke, don't drink alcohol, don't eat red meat, don't eat meat at all, don't watch too much TV etc, etc, etc :evil::evil::evil:

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..........and then they tell us to go out and spend to help the country out of recession (but just don't spend it on booze, fags and meat!!) :lol:

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Now let's have this right. Smoking is not banned. You can buy fags quite legally, go home and smoke to your heart's content - or indeed your heart's disease, at which point, we will all pay for your NHS treatment.

 

And whilst I'm feeling contentious, let's knock this twaddle about "no risk from secondary smoke" on the head. If you sit in a room with 20 people smoking dope for an hour, you will test positive for dope. So if you sit in a room with 20 people pouring out lung-wrecking, cancer-causing toxins..... and let's just add that even if it's a zero risk, I still don't WANT to breathe smoke and stink of ashtrays.

 

All smokers have been asked to do is stop flaming well taking away everyone else's freedom of choice. It's a civil right to NOT smoke, you know. And those of us who choose not to smoke are the vast majority. So irrespective of the health issues and comparative risks, it is merely democracy in action to allow us to have smoke-free public places. How is that an erosion of rights?

 

As for red meat, telly, alcohol - that's advice, not instruction. Take it or ignore it as you please. Personally, I've never been arrested or even cautioned for buying beef mince.... :lol:

 

And will SOMEBODY please explain to Bill that occasionally, other people say things that he's not actually meant to take absolutely literally..... :roll:

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Give them time LP, give them time! I agree that you should be able to sit in a smoke free pub, but whats wrong with pubs being able to provide smoke rooms with adequate ventilation systems? Or pubs being able to choose whether they are going to be smoke free or not (and see which ones go out of business!!) The whole smoking ban issue is over the top. The next target is alcohol with the righteous demanding the right to be able to sit in a pub without having people in the same room drinking filthy alcohol and breathing filthy alcoholic fumes over them (passive drinking?) :roll::roll::roll:

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On the planet where I live, Asp, smoking is an industry based upon creating and exploiting nicotine addiction in order to generate vast fortunes for companies who have known for decades that the associated toxic smoke kills people. These companies have aggressively suppressed that knowledge, bought off governments by paying hefty taxes and insidiously promoted their products by sponsoring sport in order to be associated with success, pleasure and good health..... meanwhile the humble taxpayer covers the cost of medical bills, litter removal etc and the humble drinker gets 10p a pint popped on the price to cover repainting the pub ceilings every 6 months.

 

Must be different on your planet? :twisted:

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And as for this "passive" thing, let's just think for a second about the criminal charges that would be applied to someone who decided that if he liked creme de menthe, everyone had to have some and went round the restaurant pouring it down every throat in sight, including children. That's assault. Or the reaction if I decided I enjoyed eating dog poo, so I got on the bus with a big bag and forced some into every mouth on that vehicle. Or even just chewed it messily and spoke with my mouth full so the people nearest to me were splattered...... wouldn't do, would it? Not even if I opened a window or sat at the back!

 

Smokers have been arrogant, selfish bullies for such a long time, forcing us all to join in without respect or consideration that they, and others, need re-educating.

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Well said LymmParent.

 

I?ve started going back to pubs now and my local the Plough at Houghton Green is doing a roaring trade. Why? Because it simply caters for its customers needs and the proof is in the till receipts, friendly atmosphere and customers who come back time after time.

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Get real LP: smokers are subsidising your tax payments and it's a fact that pub closures coincided with the smoking ban. :roll: Those that are staying open, are now making their money out of providing cheap meals - like the Plough. :shock: There were ways to resolve this issue to the satisfaction of both parties, and indeed that was the promise in NuLabs manifesto; however the middle class "we know what's best for you" facist elite have taken over and created a cult of obsessing with longevity, which involves micro-managing our lives. :x Meanwhile real issues are ignored. :roll:

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LP in the real world the NHS is paid for by the taxes paid by the tobacco industry. As for your ridiculous assertion about passive dog muck eating, it doesn't even come close to reality. What is so wrong about pubs having a seperate room for smokers? The smoking ban law is so unjust that even our politicians, who are, as we know, obsessively law abiding, found it necessary to give themselves a dispensation in the House of Commons bars. And I reiterate that I am a non smoker and have been for many years. :evil::evil:

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A reasoned and reasonable approach Asp; BUT these health facists who pontificate on life-styles in Parliament, while robbing the public purse, have their own view of the world and we all have to live it - don't do as we do, do as we say. :twisted:

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The times I've been in the Plough I wouldn't say the trade was roaring. More like muted if not quite comatose :roll::roll: The food was okay for pub grub but not exceptional.

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2 for ?10 - it's doing a roaring trade till 9pm when the meals stop - recomend the gammon steak! :wink: Fortunately, it's not quite possible to eat and smoke at the same time - so the imposition isn't such a bind for less than an hour. :wink:

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Try going on a Thursday evening for the very popular Pub Quiz, there is a strong crown green bowls team, good play area for the kids etc other pubs have groups playing..... pubs need to think about how they can attract customers through the doors.

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Not really my "local". A start to attracting customers back to pubs would be an end to government micro-management of our lives :wink:

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So, Asp, for me to force noxious stinking substances that might cause serious illnesses down someone's throat is a silly and unreal scenario? But you defend the right of every smoker to do precisely that to me anywhere and at any time? :? Is hypocrisy in your dictionary?

 

Any members' club can permit smoking. MPs and Lords did not vote themselves an exception - their bar is not a public house, it is open only to members. Your local can convert to a members' club and you can all choke together undisturbed.....

 

And if you remove all the smoking-related cases from the NHS, then not only will they be able to manage without tobacco industry taxes, there's a chance that all the old people hobbling round in agony might get a new hip before they actually die. Now that's an issue worth fighting.... :wink:

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Errm, where did you get that one from LP? :? The law`applies to enclosed public spaces, which includes all pubs and clubs, and the staff's place of work. A concensual solution would have been to require a designated smoking room, with extractor fans etc and no staff allowed - and I'll put a pound to a penny, it would have been full - including non-smokers. The health facists that have been pursueing this agenda, probably never used pubs, and still don't - that's why they're all closing. :roll:

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I never stated that I thought smokers had the right to force their second hand smoke down your neck LP!!! What I did say was that there should be no bar to pubs having a designated smoking room with adequate ventilation so that smokers would be able to smoke and drink in comfort without disturbing the non smokers in the same pub. What is so difficult about that? Why should 21% of the population be vilified for doing something that they enjoy if they are able to do so without inconveniencing anyone else? I agree that its a very unpleasant habit and I'm very glad I managed to quit all those years ago, but I'm not so intolerant as you obviously are. I presume that you are one of the people who would deny smokers any medical care on principal :shock::shock::shock:

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The problem asp is that it wasn't a ban on smoking in pubs.... it was a ban on smoking in the workplace. Therefore, the publican cannot force a member of staff who doesn't smoke to go into said smoking room to clear glasses etc. Just like you can't smoke in an office, shop or restaraunt.

 

The pubs could not have a seperate room for just that reason; that as it is in a public house, it is also someones place of work.

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I can appreciate the workplace argument Baz, but in Holland pubs have managed to persuade their government that they should be able to voluntarily subject themselves to the smoke hazard. That's the trouble with this government, they are intent on removing freedom of choice from the people. :evil::evil::evil:

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